Clutch

Pay back every cent that was spent on your education, and on the massive public works infrastructure that's kept you safe, clean and mobile. And do it right fucking now, not in installments: why should the government pay the interest on all the freebies you've sponged, you mooching bloodsucker.

Sorry? Oh, you were talking about all those others who get more out of the system than they've put back in. Well, okay then. As long as it's a principled objection...

Amen-Moses

Because in a capitalist society they don't!

Capitalism generates wealthy people and poor people, whether you prefer stepping over those poor people on your way into Pizza Hut or you prefer them to be hidden away out of sight is up to you, I prefer the latter option which is well worth the tax money (have you ever seen societies without welfare? Do you really want to be mobbed by beggars all day long?).

Amen-Moses

Jat

Originally posted by meritocrat
So you're just subsidising idleness.

Myth.

Non sequitur. Find a job.

Again, please learn what the term means...

Jat

Originally posted by meritocrat

Surprised at what? That I'm a more benevolent person than you?!

You misspelled that. It is spelled M A L E V O L E N T. And yes, you are.

Charities can easily care for the 'less fortunate'.

No, they can't. In many cases much of the money goes to "administrative" costs.

Jat

Originally posted by meritocrat

Yet the economy grew faster than under your beloved socialists in the 1970's. Hmmm...dark days indeed.

And Lord Raygun nearly bankrupted your nation in the 80's.

And welfare is not necessary. The welfare state is built on the notion of force. Why can't people voluntarily aid the poor or worse off?

Maybe we should start questioning your intelligence as well?

Jat

I don't know. Why do you? My mother remembers when universal health first came in and her brother-in-law had voted against it (He was a conservative). When she saw him at the hospital using it she asked him why he was there since he didn't believe in it. There is nothing worse than a hypocrit.

When you retire are you going to turn down your social security?

Born Free

S'cuse me??? How was that a personal attack??? I hadn't started my argument yet!!!

Anyway my point had been that sometimes you have to have been on the "poor" side to appreciate the need for the benefit system. There are the vulnerable members of our society who would ultimately suffer if the welfare state was abolished such as the elderly, the disabled, those suffering long term illness, children, people with mental health problems the list goes on.

Unfortunately there are the better off in society who couldn't give a rats arse what happened to those people and certainly wouldn't put their hands in their pockets to help.

The dark days of pre welfare society are long gone, we don't want to see a return to that. Ever.

Tristan Scott

The system we have seems to work well when administered properly. In 1992 there were over 14 million people on public assistance, and only 6.6% of them were employed. In 2001 less than 5.7 million were on public assistance with over 26% of them employed.

Edited with source: US Dept. of Health and Human Services.

Joe6Pack

In my state there was a reform that requires a person to get off welfare in 2 years, there was a lot of grumbling at first, but it seems to be working pretty well. The reason it works is because employers are encourged to employ those on welfare and get a tax credit(or something to that effect) the people on welfare also have more options regarding job training. It really is a hand up instead of a hand out.
With any system there will be abuses, I know of examples of someone entering the country illeagally and getting Social Security benefits in two weeks, this type of abuse needs to be stopped so we can focus on the people in need.

The only time you should look down on someone, is when you are giving them a hand up.

Jat

It seems that all of the Libertarians on here have a persecution complex.