Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 02-08-2003, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally
As Emma Goldman said:
"To disbelieve in the gods, is at the same time to affirm life, purpose, and beauty."

Fwiw, my goal is to be a theist who affirms all of those

Helen

Rousseau_CHN · 02-08-2003, 05:49 AM

another question for theist, Christ died on the cross for my sin? Thank you, Jesus, but really now?

Because the to-save-us-from-our-sin doesn't make much sense. McVeigh's Father can't tell the judge to absolve his son's crime as he would take his son's place in death row instead.

It's your sin, how do you expect others to clear you of your sin?

...doesn't make much sense to me.

(Actually, nothing in Catholicsm makes much sense to me.)

beyelzu · 02-08-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
I think Beyelzu and Kally are very wise to avoid relationships with people who have religious beliefs. If you read SL&S you can see how this complicates relationships.

I was not a Christian when I started dating my [atheist] husband; I converted some months later. Right away lots of Christians told me that Christians don't marry atheists but I was very emotionally involved so I did anyway.

I think many people underestimate the ramifications and consequences of having different beliefs to your partner. It's one thing to say "they can believe what they like" but what happens when you both want to raise your children with your own beliefs - or lack thereof?

Sabine Grant I respect your choice as your own (and your partner's) to make but I'd never encourage anyone to consider marrying a person with significantly different beliefs.

(I also respect the choice of Amie and IL and RA and Wildernesse and anyone else who has chosen a mixed belief relationship - and I also understand that whether a relationship works has mostly to do with the particular nontheist and theist and how they deal with their differences in belief - but I still wouldn't recommend it and I think those who avoid mixed belief relationships are wise in making the decision to keep that complication out of their relationships)

take care
Helen

helen,

do you have or intend to have children, and if so what are you and your husband going to do about religion?

Please note, this is a sincere question and not a personal attack. I am just wondering what your perspective is on this question.

Sabine Grant · 02-08-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally
dear B: I don't smoke anymore but smoke doesn't bother me at all.

Sabine,
It's just wonderful that you married an agnostic. I am a strong militant atheist. Living with someone who believes in a magical sky daddy would be intolerable. My own mother turned on me one day after she asked if I am an atheist or agnostic. I decided to be honest. She went nuts and started screaming in my face that I would burn in hell for eternity. She admitted that if I had said I was agnostic she would still think there was hope for me. She never shuts her mouth! She is the most obnoxious of xians, however there are milions of them out there (obviously)

I asked her where hell was, where heaven is, and will she go to heaven immediately when she dies or will she have to wait until judgment day. ROFL, her answer was "I don't know all the details." then she ran from the room yelling "You're not going to make me doubt my faith!" I escaped from her, why in the hell would I want to hook up with another psychotic?

Doubt? WTF? I have never had a doubt about my atheism. Fictional creatures do not exist Sabine. No matter how much you wish it were true, it isn't. Try to THINK about reality, not your fantasy world. Remember, god is the only childhood myth carried over into adulthood.

I no longer think some creepy old man in the sky is reading my mind all the time. The hell that I spent my childhood believing in is not there. My childhood and my brothers were destroyed in the name of god. Beaten and abused for JESUS! And a woman can not ursurp authority over a man. So she just stood there like the drooling psychotic that she is.

As Emma Goldman said:
"To disbelieve in the gods, is at the same time to affirm life, purpose, and beauty."

There really is a drop of reason in a pool of confusion to be found here. It's wonderful to not live in a world of fear and guilt. Living in the US is a special type of hell. That's why I'm here at the Internet Infidels discussion board.

Kally

Hi Kally... I guess this is where personal experience is going to determine our choices. Your relationship with your mother appears to have played a vital role in the way you percieve all christians. I could probably apply the same to any individual I ever interacted with who belonged or represented a particular group and treated me as dirt. I cannot relate to your experience because of extensive multi cultural exchanges and relations with people from many various backgrounds, religions etc.... and I have found in the course of my years of life that their individuality is what determines how they treated me. I have met offensive and irrascible muslims and I have met sociable and kind muslims. I have met open minded and accepting people and I have met oppressive and prejudiced people.
IMO your mother's issues with you are far deeper than the religion she uses as a "shield" to protect herself from healing from her own mental distress.
If you truly believe that she suffers of a psychosis, then maybe you need to deal with her as you would deal with any mentaly ill individual. That means that their thoughts and words are to not affect you anylonger. They should not promote anger in you. It is very difficult to detach oneself from the painful actions and words a mother inflicts. But it is possible.Take some distance from her and limit your visits to special occasions. Remind yourself that she may not have the mental ability to understand the impact her words have on you.
My mother has a diagnosed psychosis. I have to remind myself at all times that I cannot expect from her what I can expect from another person who has the mental capacity to question their own actions.
Give up reasoning with her if you indeed have evaluated that she is mentaly unstable. Why seeking to expose yourself to more frustrations and painful words?
I am sorry for all the abuse you have been submitted to. But please try to retain the hope that you will encounter christians who will question their actions and will treat you with decency and kindness. Do not automaticaly associate your mother to all christians. I think it is a mistake. I think it might keep you from interacting with people whom you can be a benefit to and can be a benefit to you.
Kally the reality is that you grew up in a dysfunctional home where you delt with two abusive parents. You are not alone in that situation. It may be difficult to accept at first but adult children from dysfunctional homes are in need of personal healing.

beyelzu · 02-08-2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally
dear B: I don't smoke anymore but smoke doesn't bother me at all.

Sabine,
It's just wonderful that you married an agnostic. I am a strong militant atheist. Living with someone who believes in a magical sky daddy would be intolerable. My own mother turned on me one day after she asked if I am an atheist or agnostic. I decided to be honest. She went nuts and started screaming in my face that I would burn in hell for eternity. She admitted that if I had said I was agnostic she would still think there was hope for me. She never shuts her mouth! She is the most obnoxious of xians, however there are milions of them out there (obviously)

I asked her where hell was, where heaven is, and will she go to heaven immediately when she dies or will she have to wait until judgment day. ROFL, her answer was "I don't know all the details." then she ran from the room yelling "You're not going to make me doubt my faith!" I escaped from her, why in the hell would I want to hook up with another psychotic?

Doubt? WTF? I have never had a doubt about my atheism. Fictional creatures do not exist Sabine. No matter how much you wish it were true, it isn't. Try to THINK about reality, not your fantasy world. Remember, god is the only childhood myth carried over into adulthood.

I no longer think some creepy old man in the sky is reading my mind all the time. The hell that I spent my childhood believing in is not there. My childhood and my brothers were destroyed in the name of god. Beaten and abused for JESUS! And a woman can not ursurp authority over a man. So she just stood there like the drooling psychotic that she is.

As Emma Goldman said:
"To disbelieve in the gods, is at the same time to affirm life, purpose, and beauty."

There really is a drop of reason in a pool of confusion to be found here. It's wonderful to not live in a world of fear and guilt. Living in the US is a special type of hell. That's why I'm here at the Internet Infidels discussion board.

Kally

Kally,

Glad to know that you arent a militant nonsmoker there is hope for you yet

Also, I am glad to see that you are back in your old form, I read a couple of posts by you yesterday and you didnt seem mad. I was worried that someone had stolen you ii account or that you had become a santaclausian.

I should have known better.

Radorth · 02-08-2003, 08:33 AM

Quote:

do you have or intend to have children, and if so what are you and your husband going to do about religion?

Helen has no serious disagreements with skeptics, far as I can tell.

Rad

Ronin · 02-08-2003, 08:37 AM

It was the Chopin...I have a case of Nocturnes that will improve the disposition of just about anyone.

Sabine's hemlock should shake her out of it.

Radorth · 02-08-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

My own mother turned on me one day after she asked if I am an atheist or agnostic. I decided to be honest. She went nuts and started screaming in my face that I would burn in hell for eternity. She admitted that if I had said I was agnostic she would still think there was hope for me. She never shuts her mouth! She is the most obnoxious of xians, ....

why in the hell would I want to hook up with another psychotic?

Let me guess. The number of hard-core atheists who had a "psychotic Christian" parent is what? 90% in the U.S?

OK every atheist who had great Christian parents please raise your hand and tell us about them before I form a firm opinion.

Rad

Amie · 02-08-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
I think Beyelzu and Kally are very wise to avoid relationships with people who have religious beliefs. If you read SL&S you can see how this complicates relationships.

I think it can be limiting...

Bad news for the Christian females of the world Beyelzu!

Amie · 02-08-2003, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
Let me guess. The number of hard-core atheists who had a "psychotic Christian" parent is what? 90% in the U.S?
OK every atheist who had great Christian parents please raise your hand and tell us about them before I form a firm opinion.

Hi Rad

I have a friend who is an atheist and basically every christian is her parent

After she alienated everyone around her I finally told her shit happens, suck it up, seek counseling, and move on!

It is working, she is in psychotherapy for her disturbing years as a child and feels much stronger.
It really got ridiculous, she could not even have a conversation with another believer without bitching about her parent...

View Poll Results: Would you let billions of people suffer for the actions of two people?
Yes	7	13.73%
No	36	70.59%
I might, I might not	8	15.69%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-08-2003, 05:49 AM	#212
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	another question for theist, Christ died on the cross for my sin? Thank you, Jesus, but really now? Because the to-save-us-from-our-sin doesn't make much sense. McVeigh's Father can't tell the judge to absolve his son's crime as he would take his son's place in death row instead. It's your sin, how do you expect others to clear you of your sin? ...doesn't make much sense to me. (Actually, nothing in Catholicsm makes much sense to me.)

02-08-2003, 08:37 AM	#217
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	It was the Chopin...I have a case of Nocturnes that will improve the disposition of just about anyone. Sabine's hemlock should shake her out of it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.