Freethought & Rationalism Archive

oriecat · 04-03-2002, 06:47 AM

Here is the referenced original post:
<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000004" target="_blank">Jesus Christ Mythic Hero</a>

[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: oriecat ]

Dr. Jagan Mohan · 04-17-2002, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RyanS2:


Dunno, the Virgin status of Maya was long debated. Even though she was married, like Krishna's father, both of the births' were clearly supernatural, i.e. not impregnated by a mortal.

I must Disagree: Buddha's mother dreamt that a white elephant entered her womb before she gave birth to Buddha.. But the White Elephant is the reference to Gautama's soul, while HIS PHYSICAL BODY was formed/conceived from his parents. His birth is NOT claimed as a Virgin Birth.

Same with Lord Krishna. In the Bhagavata Purana, or the Epic of Lord Krishna, Vasudeva is Lord Krishna's own biological Father. Lord Krishna's birth is not also a Virginal Birth. Same with Lord Rama.

Even in Mahabharata, a great Hindu Epic, we do come across Virgins giving Birth, but they were conceived by a Biological Father sans intercourse. This is very much different from Jesus Christs' claimed Birth of a Virgin where neither intercourse nor extra-intercourse conception is claimed. That is Jesus Christ is without a Biological Father whatsoever.. (Maybe the Heavenl;y Father caused the conception without intercourse, but this idea is also not acceptable to the Christians I think)..

In Short, Gautama Had a Biological Father and a Mother. Nothing to do with Virginity of his Mother.

Dr. Jagan Mohan · 04-17-2002, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneyard bill:
This is not the case with Jesus or Krishna. They are salvation figures who play a definite supernatural role in the process of salvation.

IMHO Salvation as a word has no equivalent in Hindu Philosophy. The reason is because in Hinduism, there is nothing like 'Original Sin' from which Mankind has to be saved.. by a Savior.. In fact 'SIN' as such does not exist in Hinduism. There is no 'SIN'.. the equivalent of 'Sin' in abrahamic religions is 'IGNORANCE' in Hinduism.

The existence of SIN is a great philosophical problem faced by Christian philosophers. (Theodicy). Since in Advaitic Hinduism, the whole universe is but an Illusion, Sin is also illusionary, having no meaning, real existence.

Dr. Jagan Mohan · 04-17-2002, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich:

6. 0.5 - Suddhodhana tries to keep him from his future career by spoiling him instead of by trying to kill him.

7. 0 - He suffers that spoilage through his childhood.

A few Objections in my humble opinion:

6. 0.5 - He is predicted to be either a Great Sage or a Great King on his coming of age.
Suddhodhana is not trying to keep him from his future career but only tries to ensure that He becomes a King instead of being disattracted into a Ascetic Life. SO there is no question of Killing Him. And his father does not try to 'spoil' his life, but just tries of keep his mind occupied with sensual pleasure with Dance, Music and other worldy pleasures sought by men at large... thus ensuring that His son will never think of leaving these pleasures for a life of a monk.

7. 0 - He was not spoiled.. just kept in pleasure. Also, meanwhile he was educated in sciences, arts and warcraft. hardy spoiling

roshan · 04-26-2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneyard bill:
I'm not aware of the details of all the criteria used here. However, I think there is a very important difference between Buddha and Jesus as well as between Buddha and Krishna. The mythic elements surrounding the life of Buddha are not central to the Buddhist faith. Buddhism is based, at least roughly, on what the Buddha supposedly taught. If he never lived, it is basically irrelevant to the teaching itself. It merely means he is a composite figure for other teachers.

This is not the case with Jesus or Krishna. They are salvation figures who play a definite supernatural role in the process of salvation. The same is true of the pure land schools of Buddhism where the Amida Buddha is said to play a supernatural role. But these schools are limited basically to Japan.

krishna is not a salvation figure.

as dr jagan mohan pointed out, hindus do not have any concept of sin, so there is absolutely nothing to save us from.

we believe that we need to end the cycle of birth and rebirth, and this we do by ourselves, not by accepting krishna as our savior like what the christians have to do with jesus. whether krishna truly existed or not does not have any impact on the actual teachings and beliefs of hinduism.

04-03-2002, 06:47 AM	#11
oriecat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland OR USA Posts: 1,098	Here is the referenced original post: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000004" target="_blank">Jesus Christ Mythic Hero</a> [ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: oriecat ]</p>

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