Ok I'm an atheist myself skeptical of all mystical phenomenon but my best friend is a Wiccan Priest. (not to mention my other myriad pagan/wiccan/infidel friends)

Some of you folks have some misconceptions:
1.) Pagan and Wiccan are NOT interchangable terms. (Some of you know this, just making the point clear)
A:They are not the same thing.
Not only that but there are MANY different shapes and flavors of Wiccan or paganism. Some believe in a God and Goddess, Some believe only in a goddess. Some allow you to believe in any god(s) you wish. Some are Mititantly feminist, MOST aren't. So be careful when you say, "All pagans are....(fill in new age stereotype here)"

2.) they are anti-science.
A: Not so, They fully accept science as real. Now some DO also accept the existence of spells, spirits and such..
BUT
(This is important)
They don't necessarily think that a "magic" ritual is a 'mystical' thing. In fact they don't particularly care about the exact rational reason WHY it works. They only care that it works.

Example:

Now they'll talk about casting a "magic ritual."
THe steps go something like this.

1.) Have a clear goal and idea what the point of the ritual is. This requires deep thought on the exact nature of the problem involved
2.) Gather energies for the ritual (And the people necessary of course)
3.) Center your mind and perform the ritual
4.) Dispell the energies for the ritual.
NOTE: I'm oversimplifying this a bit.

OK I pointed out that these are the same steps that people use to solve problems rationally
1.) Have a clear idea what your problme is.
2.) Gather resources to solve the problem (Books, thought, time, advice from others, whatever)
3.) Go about solving the problem
4.) Finish the problem and go on with your life.

I said that in fact your aren't casting a real "magic" spell and they could be just solving a problem with a different set of mental imagery.
THey said, "You're right".

So those "rituals" and "spells" are oftentimes just the vocabulary for doing a rather mundane problem solving process.

Now does this mean there aren't people who believe in all the Mystical she-bang?
Sure there are.

So a lot of Wiccans don't believe that the rituals are actual magical rituals.
Instead they're suspending disbelief.
You know, You go to a James bond film.
In this film a British destroyer is attacked by a Stealth boat.
Now my best friend (the wiccan priest and an ex master helmsmen in the navy) tells me that even though the boat is invisible on radar. The ship would have watches. (Dudes with binoculars and night vision scopes)
and would have seen the boat and blown it out of the water.

Now this would have made a 5 minute james bond film.

The point?
You suspend disbelief for a little bit to enjoy the James Bond film

The same thing goes for alot of Wiccans or Pagans.
Sure you'll hear about "Spells" and such but most don't take it seriously.

Now does this mean that some don't actually believe in the Mysticism?
Like I said, Sure some do. But not to exclusion of science.
(Yes I know its not strictly rationalistic)
But remember they don't care why or how it works. THey only care that it does.
OK, a Tarot card reader might just be a real good judge of character.
That's fine by them.

And remember, Wiccans are a VERY varied lot.
But they are also NON-envangelical. Its a BIG part of their religion. TO respect other religions and beliefs.

Who cares if they're beliefs are "irrational."
They aren't hurting anyone and unlike the some Jude-christians are actually FOR seperation of church and state, FOR science funding and AGAINST mindless zealotry.

Sure they are a few people on the fringes. But doesn't EVERY religion of people have such people?


In short, yes their beliefs may seem frightening but if you scratch beneath the surface they are, as Douglas Adams put it, "Mostly Harmless".

I still don't believe this is universally true by any stretch. If Wiccans are a varied lot then that allows for some to be anti-science and some are.

I think there is motivation to say this so Wiccans don't look foolish but some Wiccans clearly don't mind looking foolish.

Some things I've heard from Wiccans about science:

"Scientists invented the atomic bomb and therefore they shouldn't be trusted."

"Scientists are responsible for 'poison' artificial food additives and therefore we shouldn't be trusted."

This looks like standard Feynmanesque Cargo Cult Science. It has the look and feel of rational behavior but it lacks the blunt unforgiving honesty that the scientific mindset demands.

The impression I get from Wiccans I have known is that they might get a bit offended if you reduce their beliefs to the level of a James Bond film.

I don't think anybody cares what they do whether its irrational or not. To say I can't or should not expose falsehoods and poor thinking because it "doesn't harm anyone" is a borderline pragmatic fallacy.

However, if they choose to express their beliefs in a public arena (which they do via books, websites, and so on) then they are fair game to be exposed as irrational.

Call a spade a spade. If its irrational set of beliefs then its just that. Let's not shy away from that.

DC