Amos

Hello blondegoddess, I love your name and think it is very fitting for your plight.

Stephen T-B

Blondegoddess: the fact that Roadrage takes exception to your username is a real commendation...
Your post about praying for god to address you in an audible voice does sound a bit naive, I have to say. But it is very much the sort of thing I prayed for all those years ago when I finally realised that god was out.
I’d reached a point of TOTAL and ABSOLUTE commitment to god’s will. This was it: I was never again going to put anything I wanted before the requirements of god. I had prostrated myself before him and made myself nothing.
A choice confronted me, and this was going to be the moment from which I would seek god’s will at every moment of every day.
But what was his will?
“Please God,” I prayed and prayed, “tell me what you want me to do.”
I thought of the Old Testament stories of how he had spoken in the most unambiguous manner to his servants, and had wrought signs so that even those who did not believe in him should know he was the one true god.
I did not know if he would command me in a loud voice or send a sign. I was absolutely ready for anything that morning. Even a whisper. Just the merest hint. Or something wonderfully dramatic - a vision, a visitation, a booming voice.
Well, god wasn’t bothered what Stephen T-B did that day. He didn’t want me for a servant. And quite frankly, if I was that unimportant to him, then I most certainly wasn’t going to go on pleading for the rest of my life for a moment or two of his attention.
Afterwards I was told by a Roman Catholic that testing god is a sin. But I hadn’t known that. No-one had bothered to tell me. I anyway, why was it a sin?
The answer was obvious: asking god to reveal himself leads to disillusionment - like asking the fairies for a pot of gold will do the same thing. And why? Because gods and fairies aren’t real.

THE_LEGENDARY_HQB

Originally posted by Radorth:
"Those who supposedy "fall away" permanently only do so for two or perhaps three reasons

1. They were never really born again, never really knew God as he is, and were "raised" Christian. You hear this all the time. They say "I was raised Christian" as if that is enough. Sorry but "You must be born again" even if you have the whole Bible memorized.

2. They were born again, but were taught legalistic nonsense, become spiritually thirsty and leave their church in search of the spiritual reality they once felt.

3. Some may be Christians but are attracted by earthly lusts and cares. These are saved, but will suffer in this life, which suffering usually brings them back."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of your examples, Radorth, either:
A. Put the blame on B.G, or,
B. Put the blame on someone else, such as family, Church, pastors, "legalists", {one of your favourite bogeymen, I see}

you are wrong, Mr. Orth.

However, let us, for the sake of conversation, give your proposition far more merit than it actually deserves, and analyze it.

In stating the reasons people "fall away'from Xtianity, you made the following remarkable statement:

"Those who supposedy "fall away" permanently only do so for two or perhaps three reasons"

No "IMHO", or, "in my experience", but a concrete statement of fact. Moreover, not only are these reasons seemingly set in stone, they are the only reasons {emphasis mine} why anyone could possibly fall away from "The Truth".

If you an demonstrate hard, verifiable evidence that this is in fact the case, I must assume that you:

A. Have amzing mind reading powers {Hopefully not, since those come from Satan, right?}, or,

B. God has taken to whispering in your ear on a regular basis.

Since you have made such an astounding claim, a positive assertion no less, it is incumbent upon you to share this evidence with us unsaved heathens.

What, no evidence?

Then, may I most humbly restate my earlier statement, namely:

you are wrong, Mr. Orth.

You are attempting to delegitamize B.G's crisis of faith by redefining the word "loss of faith" in a way that better suits you. He who defines the issue, controls the debate.

Allow me, then to show a more accurate representation of what happened {though, of course, this is only my humble opinion

B.G was taken in by Christian dogma. She bought the whole concept of a just God and sinful man hook line, and sinker. She may very well have viewed herself as a lost, Hell bound wretch, in desperate need of a Saviour. She wanted desperately to know that God was there, looking out for her. She prayed. And prayed. She did everything possible to get a response, to know that she had assurance of eternal bliss.

She heard no voices, saw no miracles, felt no "feelings" that couldn't be explained as wishful thinking.

The grisly torments of Hell described to her by fellow Christians terrified her, while the promise of a God who answered prayers intrigued her. As time went on, she realised that the second part just wasn't happening. She realized the "If any 2 ask in my name, it shall be done" quote from the Bible was pure, unadulerated horseshit.

If the Bible was wrong about that, was it wrong about Hell, too?

How about God Himself? Shouldn't He care that one of His Children is having serious doubts about Him?

Her doubts terrified her. Noone of faith that I've ever known, including myself, ever sets out to prove their own beliefs wrong. It goes against everything they've been taught, everything they hold precious.

B.G, I wish you the best of luck in your journey to come. Pay no heed to those like Radorth, who claim not to know wether anyone is a True Christian, then, out of thin air, invent a list of reasons why you might lose your faith, accepting no other explanations.

I understand those who use this tactic. Cult members in general seem to save their vitriol more for those sheep who have left the herd, than those who were never part of it. Members who have deconverted force them to face the extremely unpleasant thought that perhaps, just perhaps, this "God" person isn't all He's cracked up to be. In fact, maybe He's no more real than any onf the other God's, spooks, ghosts, and spirits that the human mind can think up.

And so, I wish you success on whatever path you choose. I understand the feelings you're experienceing right now, more than you can ever realize.

For your own mental health, however, I do recommend that you shed any anger towards God. While I cannot prove the nonexistence of God, I also cannot prove the nonexistence of any supernatural deity. It make no sense whatsoever to be angry at a most likely imaginary being. It's like saying "I'm angry at Gronk"
What is Gronk? How can I be angry at something I cannot see, touch, smell, feel, or even define? Same thing with God.

Don't rush yourself, B.G. You have time, use it. When theism has become such an integral part of your life, nothing as important as deconverting should ever be taken lightly.

Again, good luck, and may you realize that life need not have an Invisible Man in the Sky to have purpose, meaning, and value.

Respect,
HQB

GunnerJ

I'm not going to go back and edit everything that's already been said. But as of now, this thread is (obviously) in SL&S, so all participants must abide by the rules for posting in SL&S when replying to this thread. SPECIFICALLY: preaching and other religious nonsense will not be tolerated. If religionists have secular advice to offer, they may do so. But otherwise, keep it to private messages and e-mail.

SO:

-No babbling about true faith and "true Xianity" or other nonsense. (The guilty know who they are.)

-No replying to trolls, I'll mop up their excrement myself. Plus there's a thread in GRD (LINK) for you to vent on.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

seebs

Ever seen one of those aerial photos of a train wreck? It just comes to mind, can't say exactly why.

captainpabst

Originally posted by Stephen T-B:



BlondeGoddess: I just finished reading this thread, and I must say that I, like many here in SL&S, wish the best for you during this difficult time. I don't have much to add, except to say that I think it's telling to note the support and good wishes offered by the non-believers here (plus seebs and Helen ); I'm sure you'll quickly come to see that there is a life of beauty and integrity outside of constricting belief systems. There are many intelligent and caring people here - I'm sure they will all offer you as much comfort as they can.

Best wishes to you,

David

BadBadBad

I found myself praying that tomorrow Jesus would let me kill rabbits when I went hunting. Kind of silly wasn't it. I was probably twelve, and old enough to know just how silly. That was enough for me.

seebs

Brett, don't let HazyRigby hear about that, you'll be in *big* trouble.

Elbereth

This is what makes me believe that Christianity is not right for you. And I think it's important to keep this in mind. If your beliefs are harming you, it's time to change them.

YOU are the first person you need to worry about, not some supernatural entity. If you can find some way to believe in God that makes sense to you, great, but people here can tell you that it's not necessary.

No matter what you decide, always live for yourself.


(I suck at advice, I hope you get what I'm trying to say...)

Philosoft

Hear hear! I could not say it better.