Bede

Goliath, as Hugo pointed out, read this.

The legend Christians destroyed the Great Library was invented by Edward Gibbon in the late eigteenth century and like many of his mistakes, has become fantastically influential. It is still widely assumed today and you will find it in mentioned in many places, including plenty of popular history and science. However, as I have shown it cannot be justified by the sources and hence must be rejected as a legend. For me it is an acid test: will a freethinker drop a cherished myth when they find it cannot be supported by the evidence or are they just going to be funides too?

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Goliath

Bede,

The article that you linked to is rather long, so it'll be a little while before I'll be able to read it. Reading about Krull Domains has much higher priority for me at this point.

In your opinion, yes. Again, everything I've read about the History of Mathematics says otherwise.

Sincerely,

Goliath

keyser_soze

Well, considering that all the schools of philosophy were closed, many academies, schools of higher thought, books burned, philosophers and teachers tortured and forced to flee the area....I think you would be hard pressed to find a believable source that they DID NOT burn the library. It is a common misconception that the library was destroyed by the caeser, when in reality it was a minor fire and really only damaged some of the contents...but the second major fire, occurred during a time of censorship and book burnings, under church auspices, so please feel free to give us your reasons for feeling it was not the WILL of the church.

Bede

Goliath,

To say something you don't want to face is just 'my opinion' is a cop out. My opinion is a scholarly judgement based on months of leg work in the library, yours on a few books you once read. Believe or not, we historians have academic standards too. You would not accept it if I claimed Godel was wrong based on some unnamed sources and without elaboration. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

B

Goliath

keyser_soze,

Ummmmm......is your reply above to me or to Bede? I presume it's for Bede, since I have never claimed that the church wasn't behind the burning of the Great Library. Just making sure, however.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Bede,

Whoa! Where did I say that I didn't want to read your article! Either point out where I said "I do not want to read your article" or take back your ridiculous claim!!!

Whoopty--freaking--doo!! Have you proven that the xians didn't sack the Great Library? No? Then I couldn't care less about your smug claim to "research."

Correct: You would have to point out a hole in the proof of whatever theorem of his that you were criticizing. That's the beauty of Mathematics: No arguments from authority.

Sincerely,

Goliath

keyser_soze

Am I mistaken in my readings that the library was burned TWICE? That the first time a wing of it was destroyed by the caeser, and the second time it was destroyed during the christian's bloody reign where academies and institutions of higher thought(aristotles academy comes to mind first) were shut down and the teachers and tutors of the age were forced to flee the region.

Goliath

keyser_soze,

Unfortunately, I'm away from my home and my office, and I don't have my Mathematics history books with me. However, from what I recall, your readings are correct.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Bede

Goliath,

You made a false claim on this thread. I look forward to your retraction when you have examined the evidence. As for maths not using arguments from authority, I assume that was a joke. Either you have personally proven every result you have ever used, or you have accepted arguments from authority. More to the point, mathematicians tell us they have proven something and the rest of us are just supposed to believe it. That too, is an argument from authority. You gain your maths authority from long study just as I gain my historical authority in the same way.

Keysor,

You are reading fantasy novels and confusing them with history. There is no evidence that Christians destroyed the great library. This is a historical fact. Caesar probably did. Read the link above and get back to me if you have any serious questions.

Alex was wracked by internal disputes throughout its history that periodically led to scholars fleeing. Ptolemy Psychon is the best know example as he expelled them all but there are others such as Domitian's sacking of the city, that of Commodus, the Zenobian revolt etc etc etc. While there were violent clashes in the late 4th century between Christians and pagans these were pretty much par for the course in that city. Alex remained a centre of scholarship until the Persian invasion in the 7th century. There is, again, no evidence that Christianity led to a decline in science, although the Roman Empire's wars of survival and fall in the West certainly did.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Goliath

Bede,

Please back up this assertion!

Wrong. I have done neither, because--pay attention, Bede--I can (and do, whenever possible) examine the proofs of the results that I use. That is what separates Mathematics from history. In history--much like religion--you are told to believe something because someone else said so (and you are especially told not to question any of these "scholars" and "authorities"). However, in Mathematics, you can see proofs of every proposition, lemma, theorem, and corollary in the currently known body of Mathematical knowledge. This is why Mathematicians never rely on arguments from authority.

You've now shown me that you know nothing of Mathematics.

Wrong again: a Mathematician says that he's proven something, and the rest of us can check his proof to see why the result holds. You will never find a "REPENT AND BELIEVE SINNER!!!! BELIEVE BECAUSE OTHERS BELIEVE AND DON'T YOU EVER QUESTION ANYTHING, OR I WILL RIP YOUR ICHOR-FILLED, STILL BEATING HEART OUT OF YOUR CHEST AND LAUGH AS I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU ROT IN HELL!!!!!" attitude prevalent in Mathematics, unlike history and religion (well, I may be exaggerating a slight bit in the case of history, but I think you see what I'm getting at).

Sincerely,

Goliath