rainbow walking

rw: Thank you mosaic...hey Alix...what he said

Theli

Morality is not an entity or an object. It is a concept. A difference.
Gravity and the constant C exists in the material world, yet they are not material entities themselfs.
Or does the supernatural exist in your head only?

And what is that supposed to mean, have you proven yourself in an earlier post that I have read?
I haven't seen any such post or argument yet, so it's not my fault either.

rainbow walking

Hi theli,
What Theophilus, and his cohorts, are doing is imagining that there must exist, somewhere out there in spiritual lala land, a control device called god that compels all men to operate by some sort of systematic valuation paradigm. He just won't allow himself to consider this compulsion as being a derivative of his own mortality.

What he, CS Lewis, and such presuppositionalistic minded individuals fail to realize, is that by joining their brains and voices to the already deafening cacaphony of such tripe, they are facilitating the continued expansion of conservativist propoganda, which is aimed at duping the will of the populace into accepting their preservationist status quo morality as the best possible course for the attainment of man's betterment. What the general lemmings...uh...er public fail to realize, is that these conservatives, while giving lip service to moral issues, are just religious elitist wanting to appropriate the machinery of state to force their will upon the rest of us...but their morality has some serious shades of questionable value assignment built in and evidenced in their zealousness to enforce it at the point of a gun.

Their methodology is to install like minded people into crucial governmental positions with access to the most power granting levers, change the rules at any level to accomplish this, bend them when this fails, and eventually, before its over with, break them at any cost...with the final effect being a USA that is no longer a USA. The states will no longer be united and America will no longer be the United States. Don't believe this will be the end result? Just look at their churches? Their values are reflected in their religious practices. If those values were so grand and progress attaining, why do they continue to split and divide into more and more denominations? They are, by their very nature, aggrandizing expansionistic power moguls bent on dominating the free world and manipulating its military to gain further control, by threat of force, over all of mankind.

Normal

You presuppose dying is "wrong".

Besides, if humans ever have the ability to extend their lifespan dramatically, I imagine it will be a very costly procedure. So who gets to live forever? The rich. I think the system we have now is fine, everyone gets their turn at life, then gives it up to someone else.

rainbow walking

You presuppose dying is "wrong".

rw: So do you, if not, you'd be dead.

Besides, if humans ever have the ability to extend their lifespan dramatically, I imagine it will be a very costly procedure.



rw: This unwarrented assumption is the crux of your criticism. What if it turns out not to be that expensive? Or what if it costs about as much as buying a new house? How long is the average mortgage? 30 years? If you could purchase a treatment to arrest your aging process for 500 years, what's a thirty year mortgage to that benefit?


So who gets to live forever?



rw: Who said anything about forever?


The rich.



rw: Add 500 years to your life and what does that do to your personal net worth? Who is richer. the 80 year old on his death bed or the 80 year old taking sky diving lessons with 420 years ahead of him?



I think the system we have now is fine, everyone gets their turn at life, then gives it up to someone else.

rw: Why does this seem fine? Why do we have to give it up? Why does our existence preclude the existence of those coming after us? You make it sound as if there are people waiting at the station for me to die so they can be born. The universe contains many, many planets. Ample room for trillions of 1000 year old people to call home. Science, my friend, is a far more parsiminous cure to man's problems than religion, nihilism or politics could ever hope to be. I suggest you think a little deeper about your reservations. Especially if you made reservations in heaven.

Alix Nenuphar

rw:

While I appreciate the entertainment value that conspiracy theories provide, perhaps we should address them in another thread? I concede that it is your thread, but mixing subjects will probably precipitate its relocation.

rainbow walking

Alix, you're beginning to remind me of the media pundits who, when interviewing someone that introduces information that might actually inform the public about something the media bosses don't want known, have the cameraman pan the pundits face so the public can see him roll his eyes and mouth the "conspiracy theorist" indictment, in order to poison the well and instruct the public that this person is "out there".

What I have said to theli is extremely cogent to this topic. And we have very fair minded moderators who don't whisk threads off to other forums just because you might happen to think otherwise, so...I reject your obvious attempt to poison this well and I introduce the antidote of reason back into the water. If you have anything substantive to add...do it now...otherwise...shove your conspiracy theorist accusation back up the same ass you pulled it out of.

Alix Nenuphar

rw:

Do you always resort to content-free vulgarity when your statements are questioned? It doesn't appear to be a profitable method of debate. As I pointed out in my post, it's your thread - you can discuss whatever you like.

But what, precisely, is the relevance of American governmental/religious conspiracy theories to your unsupported assertions that all religion is false and destructive to the endeavour of prolonging the human life?

And why do you have this particular obsession with longevity? Fear of death? Fear of life? Fear of rational conversation?

Alix Nenuphar

mosaic:

You stated,
Stating that you cannot imagine such a proof does not free rw of the responsibility of offering one. He has made a firm statement: man is not responsible for his own mortality. He could offer several possible proofs: a demonstration that some other entity is wholly responsible for man's mortality; a refutation of the fact of mortality (unlikely to be successful, in my opinion - as you have pointed out); a condition of responsibility that alleviates man from the definition of it, etc.

Your rebuttal does not seem to be meaningful. Certainly, man is mortal. Why? Some logical entity (whether an agorithmic process, personal intervention, etc.) could be implicated as a cause.

But that's not the point; we are not arguing the truth of the Bible. Rw has stated that Christianity has lied (positive statement). Unless it demonstrated that Christianity is actually false, rw's statement is unsupported personal opinion.

Actually, that is my point. rw is making a universal negative: no Gods exist. As you so politely point out, this statement cannot be proven - but rw's argument depends upon its truth value.

rw is making arguments based on the position of what I believe is called 'strong atheism': no God exists. As you indicate, this is unprovable; therefore rw's arguments cannot be assumed to be valid, since this fundamental proposition is unsubstantiated.

rainbow walking

alix: Do you always resort to content-free vulgarity when your statements are questioned?


rw: When it suits me, yes. Do you always resort to inuendo, insinuation, well poisoning and subtle threats, couched as questioning, when you obviously have ulterior motives for doing so? Why should you care if my every post is on topic or not? Who appointed you the official on-topic guardian of this forum?


Alix: It doesn't appear to be a profitable method of debate.

rw: You got the message...loud and clear.


Alix: As I pointed out in my post, it's your thread - you can discuss whatever you like.

rw: And the relevance of you pointing this out?

Alix: But what, precisely, is the relevance of American governmental/religious conspiracy theories to your unsupported assertions that all religion is false and destructive to the endeavour of prolonging the human life?

rw: You're the genious, figure it out. By the way, there still remains a sharp critique of your many unsupported assertions in another thread...or have you forgotten?

Alix: And why do you have this particular obsession with longevity? Fear of death? Fear of life? Fear of rational conversation?


rw: Obsession and fear...my what a tasty choice of terms. What is it that motivates you to haunt my specific threads with these assinine and irrelevant challenges? Are you still sore over my bitch-slapping your brains around in the thread on PoE? What were the terms...obsession, fear...? Just can't get enough, can you.