Infidelettante

__________________________________________________ __quote:CJD
"All I am looking for is the atheist to admit many of his/her absence of beliefs, though warranted (insofar as his/her reality is socially constructed), are nonetheless unjustified in the very same way that many of the Xian's beliefs are."
__________________________________________________ __

My, these are such fun to read. Would you mind if I try?

CJD, I can see that discussion of both Atheism and Christianity is warranted as each raises questions of whether a person can justify holding to one or the other.

It appears to me you would have us equate belief in God with non-belief in gods and so require the justification of the two to equate as well. Atheism is not justified in the very same way as theism as it is not theism. The justification for atheism is that the theist has failed to justify his theism.

The Theist can have many beliefs regarding his theological stance. The Atheist has no beliefs regarding theological matters. Even if we agree to label the Atheists lack of belief in gods as a belief in the lack of gods it amounts to only one belief or [as you like] only one absence of belief.

The Theist, having so vast an inventory of beliefs is put upon just to enumerate them. How to justify them must prove daunting. The Theist can not, by reason of this overwhelming task reduce the work load by increasing that of the Atheist.

JT

Philosoft

Have you not been listening? I have no "a priori commitment" to hatred of religion or God. None. My atheism is a result of logic, reason and empiricism. There is no element of anti-religion presupposition; my set of axioms is quite limited.
*sigh*
I guess you haven't been listening. I am not emotionally invested in the question of God's existence. The god of the Bible doesn't exist for many reasons, not one of which is that I don't want him to exist.

Starboy

Yikes, Philosoft this CJD fellow is quite insistent! He is going to make us fit his worldview whether we do or not. I looks to me that without viewing atheism as opposing god he has nothing so he has made this man of straw on which to beat. In all fairness I do oppose religion but it has nothing to do with god or the bible and everything to do with the atrocious behavior of the religious and the free ride they get in society. Who cares why the perp harms society, harm is harm and when they have rigged the system so that they can get away with it over and over who would not be incensed by this. Christians suck.

Starboy

Radorth

No simplistic, inane belief system in place there, eh?

Any argument that atheists have no thumb-sucking beliefs by definition is equally inane I'm afraid. I'm sure more than 75% of those calling themselves atheists claim to KNOW God doesn't exist, but they of course can prove nothing of the sort and these true believers never provide any proof they demand of theists. They can't come close to proving biogenisis, but they believe it anyway simply because the alternatives are repugnent to them.

I call these one dimensional skeptics, and the two dimensional ones, like CJD, Carrie, or Sneddin (or the more famous Durant and Wells) stick out like sore thumbs. The latter's works are widely read because these honest thinkers did not underestimate the intelligence and wisdom of the average inquisitive reader. They can easily smell a one dimensional "skeptic" pushing propaganda.

Rad

Starboy

My statement that Christians suck is not based on a belief system. My father would say that Nazis suck because of his experience with them. The folks affected by 9/11 would say that fundamentalist Muslims suck because of their experience with them. I say that Christians suck because of my experience with them. Incidentally Radorth, your rabid stance as attacker of atheists and as a thoughtless promoter of Christianity supports my sentiment toward Christians.

As for your thumb sucking claims regarding atheist, I am sure you have read this before, but atheists are united as a group by only one thing, their lack of belief in theism. Although some number of atheists may make claims that god doesn't exist, I fail to understand how this is supposed to bring anyone comfort. To the contrary, atheists that openly proclaim it suffer a fate of social criticism and marginalization at the hands of the devout. In a land where church and state are one this would be understandable, but in a secular country with freedom of religion it is unfathomable unless you take into account that the faithful majority care nothing for the constitution and the rights of others. Christians suck!

Starboy

mike_decock

Why do you think the burden of proof lies on the atheists?

-Mike...

Family Man

I wonder how Radorth knows that "75% of those calling themselves atheists claim to KNOW God doesn't exist." But then, he's probably just indulging in empty rhetoric again.

Radorth

Any excuse for your generalizations will do, from what I've read.

I'm sure you'd say the same thing about C.S. Lewis, so I won't take it too hard. Does Jesus suck as well? How about M. Scott Peck?

Just curious. One really can't tell if you make any distinctions.

Rad

Radorth

Well, perhaps I'm overestimating the number of atheists who claim to know God does not exist, based on the attitudes and statements/phrases I've read here.

"There is no God Radorth."

...fairy-tale gods...

Jesus never existed.

We don't need to answer because there is no god.

If God exists he would be a murderer.

Glad to hear a couple of you are really borderline agnostics. However speaking and acting as if there is no God, or he is so bad as to be unworthy of recognition is to me the same as "knowing" there is no God.

Rad

Starboy

Radorth, why would you or should you care what I think about your heroes? They are your heroes and you are welcome to them. Just have the good sense to share your enthusiasm with those who give a damn and learn not to bother the rest. If Christians would learn just this one thing they and I would get along a whole lot better.

I have said this before and I will say it again. If Christians would come to this site, and to the world in general, with the intent of learning about non-Christians and what they think and sought common ground instead of trying to convince everyone of their beliefs I think the world would be a much more peaceful place.

If only Christians would concentrate on what unites us rather than what divides us then I might think that there is something to the claims of Christian love. But all I see is a huge pile of a** holes that think they have cornered the market on "truth", morality, and how to be right with the world.

Starboy