Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GeoTheo · 07-24-2002, 02:30 PM

Well it probably wouldn't astound them if all there other classes weren't so easy.
Like all mutiple choice exams, no essays. etc.

pseudobug · 07-24-2002, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GTX:
<strong>

I believe Carroll College in Helena Montana.

BYU in Utah (although Mormon)

There are Catholic and Christian Colleges that can award degrees in biology and in medicinal sciences.</strong>

Sorry, GTX. BYU teaches evolution. Unlike Bob Jones University or Liberty University, they teach legitimate science instead of indefensible fairy tales.

mibby529 · 07-24-2002, 03:51 PM

Bob Jones never received accredition.

Anyway, it seems most of us here agree that a public science class is about facts, and creationists don't have them.

scigirl · 07-24-2002, 04:44 PM

(Scigirl's ears pop up, since Helena is her hometown)

The Catholic church's official position, I believe, is not creationism, but rather theistic evolution.

<a href="http://www.carroll.edu/academics/naturalsci/biology.html" target="_blank">Carroll's biology degree</a> includes the class "evolution," taught by a PhD in population and evolutionary genetics.

<a href="http://www3.baylor.edu/Biology/Undergrad/Courses.html" target="_blank">Baylor College</a> is baptist I believe, but the biology department is founded in evolutionary biology:

3340 Biology of Animal Behavior
A study of animal behavior: animal orientation, instinctive behavior, learning, communication, and social behavior with emphasis on evolutionary and ecological relationships.

3403 Ecology
Lectures and discussions that illustrate the basic concepts in evolutionary, behavioral, population, community, ecosystem and conservation ecology. Field-based laboratory investigations.

4365 Topics in Evolution
Processes which establish or eliminate variation in populations and how these mechanisms effect biological diversity.

4420 Natural History of the Vertebrates
Study of diversity, adaptations, ecology, behavior, and evolution of the vertebrates.

On to BYU:
<a href="http://bioag.byu.edu/botany/BOT341/Evolve.htm" target="_blank">Here</a> is the somewhat official mormon stance on evolution:

Quote:

Although there has never been a formal declaration from the First Presidency addressing the general matter of organic evolution as a process for development of biological species, these documents make clear the official position of the Church regarding the origin of man.

<a href="http://www.byu.edu/index.html" target="_blank">BYU</a> teaches <a href="http://zoology.byu.edu/zool610/syllabus.htm" target="_blank">Zoology 610</a> which uses the text, "molecular evolution."

BYU by far seems the least likely to teach evolution (it just didn't seem to be a part of the biology curriculum as much, like it did with Carroll and Baylor)

scigirl

Starboy · 07-24-2002, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
<strong>Should the attitude toward creationists be "Tough luck, you have a right to your religious beliefs, but you have no right provided by the constitution that they be right beliefs or even rational ones or that others should hold them as well. There is no evidence in the Universe for the existence of God or that he is Our creator.That is simply a fact. Facts are what we deal with in this class and not fairy tales, superstitions or religious beliefs."
This was basically the attitude of a biology professor I had in a state funded community college. He also publicly ridiculed a former student in his class that cried out "Jesus is the only way" and excused himself during a human evolution lecture. The professor made it clear that quote: "The belief in 'a deity'or some spirit
is intangible and therefore outside the realm of Science. He took it upon himself as his personal mission to disabuse us of any irrational notions of creationism. At the start of the semester we we were asked to right our names on 3x5 cards and answer on them two questions:
1. Do you believe in evolution or creation for the origin of species?
2. Do you believe in evolution or creation for the origin of humans?
We were asked to fill out our answers to the same questions again at he close of the semester.
This was not a philosophy class, it was freshman general biology. Had he overstepped his bounds as a Teacher in a state funded school? </strong>

Hi GeoTheo,

I can�t speak for the professor you mention in your post since I was not there. But I can say this; anyone who is charged with teaching evolution or cosmology to a Christian fundamentalist will have to perform a certain amount of deprogramming if they hope to succeed. Based on your post perhaps that is what he was trying to do.

Starboy

07-24-2002, 07:34 PM

No, I think that it is important to keep young people brainwashed.

As GK Chesterton said of atheists, if people believe in nothing, they'll believe in anything. We must *work* to keep minds clean of creationist heresy.

Philosoft · 07-24-2002, 07:40 PM

I have wondered, how does one teach Christian creationism? Is there anything more than, "On the first day..."? Are there any theories dealing with possible mechanisms? Would one teach the "insurmountable problems with evolution that mean creationism is true" rigamarole? Otherwise, that would be a very short class.

mattmattmattmattv · 07-24-2002, 10:10 PM

No.

Albion · 07-24-2002, 10:33 PM

Well, I'm sure flood geology and biology would take up some time. Although the lessons about why carbon dating is worthless when used to show that organic remins are tens of thousands of years old but superb when used to show that archaeology proves the existence of every last place mentioned in the OT might be interesting.

Camaban · 07-24-2002, 11:20 PM

Philosoft: Don't forget the bit where they teach about the thousands of evolutionists who doubt evolution.

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07-24-2002, 02:30 PM	#21
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Well it probably wouldn't astound them if all there other classes weren't so easy. Like all mutiple choice exams, no essays. etc.

07-24-2002, 03:51 PM	#23
mibby529 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cali Posts: 170	Bob Jones never received accredition. Anyway, it seems most of us here agree that a public science class is about facts, and creationists don't have them.

07-24-2002, 07:34 PM	#26
Synaesthesia Guest Posts: n/a	No, I think that it is important to keep young people brainwashed. As GK Chesterton said of atheists, if people believe in nothing, they'll believe in anything. We must work to keep minds clean of creationist heresy.

07-24-2002, 07:40 PM	#27
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	I have wondered, how does one teach Christian creationism? Is there anything more than, "On the first day..."? Are there any theories dealing with possible mechanisms? Would one teach the "insurmountable problems with evolution that mean creationism is true" rigamarole? Otherwise, that would be a very short class.

07-24-2002, 10:10 PM	#28
mattmattmattmattv Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 36	No.

07-24-2002, 10:33 PM	#29
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Well, I'm sure flood geology and biology would take up some time. Although the lessons about why carbon dating is worthless when used to show that organic remins are tens of thousands of years old but superb when used to show that archaeology proves the existence of every last place mentioned in the OT might be interesting.

07-24-2002, 11:20 PM	#30
Camaban Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 473	Philosoft: Don't forget the bit where they teach about the thousands of evolutionists who doubt evolution.

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