lpetrich

Badfish:
No I've demonstrated that YHWH has stood the test of time, all the other religions are offshoots.

Demonstrably false. The Bible starts getting historical when the monarchy started, which was about ~1000 BCE. Everything in the Bible before that is essentially mythology; there are significant differences with archeological and other historical evidence.

Written records extend as far back as 3000 BCE in Egypt and Sumer (southeastern Iraq) -- and they describe the worship of deities other than the Biblical God, YHWH.

And the same is true of many other places as they get written records -- elsewhere in the Middle East, in Greece, in Italy, in India, in China, in Japan, in Central America, ...

Badfish

Unverifyable, we have tablets, we cannot date them with any kind of accuracy. IMO

And again, has not stood the test of time.

So far YHWH has stood the test of time by realizing fulfilled prophesy, and has proven through demonstration of being able to stand the test of time to be a Sovereign entity.

None of the others can claim that.

lpetrich

(Written records older than the Bible...)
Badfish:
Unverifyable, we have tablets, we cannot date them with any kind of accuracy. IMO

All one has to do is to C14-date their archeological contexts and use various other helpful bits of info like what survives of Manetho's Egyptian king lists.

And C14 dating can be calibrated by checking against the trunks of long-dead trees.

And again, has not stood the test of time.

Except that it has. Badfish, why don't you study the mainstream scientific literature some time?

So far YHWH has stood the test of time by realizing fulfilled prophesy, and has proven through demonstration of being able to stand the test of time to be a Sovereign entity.

None of the others can claim that.

Except that they do, O Badfish. Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, etc. make claims like that.

And the Bible itself is less than perfect.

Spaz

Sweet mother of god I'm gonna die laughing. Which site filled your head with these ideas? AIG? DrDino? CARM? ICR? It's so very obvious that most gods, being how really damn far they are from each other, were developed independently. Are you saying the gods of the native americans were offshoots of yahweh? That the Aztecs sacrificed humans to yahweh?

[edit]: Shoulda had that quote in there

Magus55

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lpetrich
from: http://www.trueorigins.org/dating.as...%2014%20dating[/URL]


Dr. Libby, the discoverer of the C14 method, which won for him a Nobel prize, expressed his shock that human artifacts extended back only 5000 years, a finding totally in conflict with any evolutionary concept. Older dates were found to be very unreliable (CRSQ , 1972, 9:3, p.157).

C14 analysis of oil from Gulf of Mexico deposits showed an age measured in thousands of years - not millions. Data produced by the Petroleum Institute at Victoria, New Zealand, showed that petroleum deposits were formed 6,000-7,000 years ago. Textbooks state that petroleum formation took place about 300,000,000 years ago (Velikovsky, 1955, p.287; CRSQ , 1965, 2:4, p.10). Fossil wood was found in an iron mine in Shefferville, Ontario, Canada, that was a Precambrian deposit. Later the wood was described as coming from Late Cretaceous rubble, which made it about 100 million years old instead of more than 600 million years old. Two independent C14 tests showed an age of about 4000 years (Pensee , Fall 1972, 2:3, p.43).

And tree ring dating:



As one who has taught dendrochronnology, I have a few opinions on this particular subject. Also, one of my graduate students went to work for Ferguson in his lab at U of A, and in fact was the curator of his work after his death, and is presently probably the only one who knows anything about how he [Ferguson] produced the bristlecone chronology. Another of my graduate students gave a seminar to the lab on dendrochronology of fossil trees and had ample opportunity to analyze the procedures there, and to work with Ferguson for a while. I can say on pretty firm grounds that the Bristlecone chronology before 4000bp is fraught with problems and unanswered questions. While Ferguson was alive, he never allowed anyone to analyze his original data or the bases for the many suppositions that went into the establishment of the chronology. Thus the chronology was not subjected to the normal rigors of science. This is regrettable, because I believe he was a careful and sincere scientist. Of course one could always excuse Ferguson for not revealing the bases of his decisions (for example, the most important rings in any chronology are the “missing rings” which have to be added by the investigator). But suffice to say the chronology before 4000bp is entirely dependent on C14 dates of the wood, and is thus tautologous. This does not mean it is meaningless or necessarily wrong, just that I wouldn’t base too much on it.


Those don't prove its errancy, it just proves anyone can go to the Bible, see two differing statements, supposedly about the same subject, and declare it a contradiction. They don't bother to study it. Just as bad as SAB and holds no weight at all.

Paperstreet

There are tons of religions... Just because they aren't mainstream in the US, or talked about a lot, it doesn't mean they are fake. They probably make similar claims against Christianity.

If your going to use the, "look what religion stood the test of time, and hardships etc..." then the choice obviously isn't christianity. Its amazing people are still Jewish after all the anti-semitism and attempted diasporas and genocides.

Ojuice5001

I often wonder whether any or all of my posts on this board are inspired by the Roman gods. In some ways, my posts on this board are like the Bible--they show a sort of progressive revelation, they speak with assurance about the gods' truth, their purpose is to tell people that they are destined for a relationship with the gods. What could get my message listened to better? Maybe I need a greater insistence that the things you put your trust in aren't really that trustworthy, like the Bible has.

Magus55

Judaism is part of Christianity - they are lumped together as Judeo-Christian. Both worship Yahweh. Jews are just as much a part of the Bible as Christians, if not more. Christianity has only existed 2000 years, so when we are talking about the Christian God standing the test of time, we are starting back to the beginnings of Judaism.

Badfish

What about the Live goats (or sheep) that were carbon dated and found to be thousands of years old? That was funny.

Obviously since decay cannot be observed on a scale of any magnitude, carbon dating cannot be shown to be accurate.

We have models and controlled labs that can gauge rates of decay as we can observe it, but we cannot observe how elemental changes and extended lengths of time affect decay, therefore we do not not know if decay is consistent in it's rate.

Badfish

Ok then they can use potassium argon, science will use many forms of dating, the results can be as much as 100 million years different from another result.

ORNL dated a dinosaur bone using carbon dating, the age they came back with said it was only a few thousand years old.

Hardly an exact science.