Ender

This statement is incoherent. Unless you'd like to elaborate how a "leap of faith" exceeds the constraints of absolute knowledge without breaking the limits of language and of human experience.

~Speaker 4 the Death of God~

madmax2976

Which is absolute nonsense. We believe no deities exist due to the lack of evidence that such a being or beings exist and because some of these beings are contradictory and incoherent as they are defined.

Thats not "faith". Thats logical, reasonable deduction. "Absolute certainty" is a straw man invented by theists to protect their belief system. It has nothing to do with how atheists/agnostics approach the issue.

[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: madmax2976 ]</p>

Dianna

We can't, I guess. But what does that have to do with creating a belief in something that has no evidence backing it up? Are we to believe in everything because there exists the remotist possibility it is real?

No. But what does that have to do with believing it? Are you saying we should believe because we can't be sure it isn't true? I know you're not saying that...are you?

Not just experience. Yes, we experience no god. But we also observe no god. We have no evidence of god to look at and we have evidence showing the holy books of all the gods we've heard of are untrue. We have good reason not to adopt a belief in a god.

Huh? Let's see: no evidence, no god around here, book filled with stories about a god (from which luvluv can pick and choose and interpret creatively).

You make a leap and say: God exists.
I say: I don't believe it.

And you are trying to say I'm making a leap of faith too? You wish.


Dianna.

Tercel

Daydreamer,
It is possible that many of my experiences of God are psychologically derived. It is also possible that my many experiences of the physical world are psychologically derived: Perhaps the world itself does not exist but is merely a psychological projection of my needs and wants?

One set of experiences is as real as the other to me: Why should I reject the one and accept the other?

Tercel

Hi atheist_in_foxhole,

You wrote:

<strong>Did your god love those poor people at the world trade center who were forced to jump 1,500 feet to their deaths on the streets below in order to avoid the flames?

Did your god love the 200,000 men, women, and children who drowned in that flood in Bangladesh a few years back?

Does your god love the 25,000+ children who starve to death in third world countries each and every day?</strong>

Yes, I believe so. Paul wrote that he believed nothing in all Creation could separate us from the love of Christ.

As far as the dinosaurs go, I'm not sure they're capable of being loved in the same way as a human. But yes, I believe God loves them as far as he loves all creation for what it is.

<strong>If so, that's a bizarre way of showing love.</strong>

I do not believe God was the direct cause of these events, hence reading anything from them into the nature of his love would seem to me to be pointless. I believe God hates the suffering and evil in the world as much as we do, - more in fact.

<strong>What's even more bizarre is that you would love this being in return.</strong>

How could I not love the one who created me, who has given me every good thing I have, who is the source of all life and all that is good, who has redeemed me by sending his son to die for the wrongs I have done to him, and who loves me for what I am?

<strong>In many ways it's similar to how abused wives continue to love their husbands even though he beats her on a regular basis.</strong>

The way a punished child still loves it's parents would seem to be another analogy which perhaps might come to mind.

<strong>And if you truly feel a god's "love" like you say, how do you know that it's the Christian god and not one of the thousands of other gods worshipped throughout history?</strong>

Why must it be necessarily one or the other? As a Christian I do not have do deny that the vast majority of humans in history were completely wrong about all they believed: Only the atheists do that. Everyone perceives God in their own way, and understands him through their own culture. But I believe that the greatest and clearest revelation came through God revealing his Son Jesus Christ to us, hence I am a Christian.

Philosoft

Why should you accept either one? Both are needlessly complex.

Hondo

Originally posted by Tercel

Why must it be necessarily one or the other? As a Christian I do not have do deny that the vast majority of humans in history were completely wrong about all they believed: Only the atheists do that. Everyone perceives God in their own way, and understands him through their own culture. But I believe that the greatest and clearest revelation came through God revealing his Son Jesus Christ to us, hence I am a Christian.

An amazing quote coming from a xtian Tercel. Why do xtians have missionaries throughout the world foisting the word upon the ill informed? It seems to me that the rest of of your ilk has a hard time respecting other peoples own way and culture.

You can put down atheistic/agnostics belief, with a contrived argument. Please stick to the facts. The main fact being that xtians have absolutely no respect for any other beliefs, except those expressed by their holey bibull.

Have you forgotten that there is only one way?

Hondo

Autonemesis

Would you be thankful if I cut you with a knife to sell you a bandage? Who arranged for you to be born into a world where you could not help but fall from grace? Think about that.

HRG

Just a suggestion:

When you compare your experiences with those of others, they agree with your experiences about the world, but not with yours about God.

Of course those "others" too could be a result of your psychological projections ...

Regards,
HRG.

HRG

So who IYO is the direct cause of earthquakes, hurricanes and hemolytic viruses like Ebola - all of which can create tremendous suffering ?

Regards,
HRG.