Kosh

Douglas, if fire-breathing Dragons existed in
recent times, where are the remains? Don't you
think there'd be some bones? Can you show us some?

Corwin

I've read over the passages, and while Leviathan COULD have been a croc.... there are some problems. Most of what people are saying about how it could have been a croc don't apply here. For saltwater crocodiles, yes. Most of the above statements apply. Saltwater crocs can range from 18-20 feet long and are huge. They also live exclusively in Australia. Not the middle east. Now.... nile crocs are known for being generally disagreeable and extremely dangerous... but they don't have nearly the mass of saltwater crocs. They're quite a bit smaller.

Of course all of this can be pretty simply explained. Leviathan is a crocodile and Behemoth is a hippopotamus. Both of the above being explained to the reader by the same authors that list bats as birds, claim rabbits chew cud, and that insects have four legs.....

NeilUnreal

"Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate..."

-William Shakespeare, Sonnets XVIII

"The wind was a torrent of darkness among the gusty trees,
The moon was a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
The road was a ribbon of moonlight, over the purple moor..."

-Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman

[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: NeilUnreal ]</p>

Coragyps

Neil! Get that reality out of here THIS INSTANT!!!!!

Joe Nobody

I saw a documentary once which clearly demonstrated a one time co-existence of man and dinosaur. Oh wait, nevermind, that was just a Flinstones cartooon

behemoth...hippo...maybe an elephant

leviathon....large marine animal...probably a bloody croc

All that breathing fire stuff is is highly figurative, exaggerated poetic imagery

Joe Nobody

SmashingIdols

Ahhhh, hey guys...

The verse is entirely astrological. First he asks if you know how to bind Orions girdle.

Orion is the hunter. He stands before...

Behemoth. The constellation Taurus, including the Pleadies (also mentioned therein), not to mention, ripping right through them the fiery dragon leviathon itself, leaving a shiny wake - the Milky Way.

The question is quite simple: can you explain the heavens and their motions? Can you bind them and make them do your will? Can you put a hook through their mouth and command them, yada yada yada

So, if you are going to stand like Orion, and challenge God (literally the heavens), what exactly is your plan of action? Any close examination of this astrological painting reveals that Orion is not going to do very well, indeed. Most people would not want to be standing in his shoes. That's all it is saying.

Sorry for the interjection, please carry on...

Oolon Colluphid

Personally, all this 'was it a hippo, a crocodile or whatever' stuff is pointless. The creatures sound as mythical as the satyrs and cockatrices in Isiaih. I've yet to hear why they have to be anything real. Unless the others are real too, the behemoth and leviathan could just as easily be allegorical constructs, not biological entities.

What's the literalist's take on cockatrices, btw? Douglas?

Oolon

tronvillain

Oolon Colluphid:
When I read Raptor Read I hadn't realized that it was by the author of the Dinosaur Heresies, despite haing the book on my shelf. Anyway, I definitely enjoyed reading it.

kookiejar

I read "Raptor Red" a couple of years back and loved every word, and I just finished "The Dinosaur Heresies". That one should be required reading for anyone who has an interest in evolution or biology. Dr. Bakker is also a Baptist minister, which I found fascinating.