RevDahlia

How about, "person with a penis, or a person who considers it a quirk of cruel fate that he does not have one."

Not to dis the F2Ms, but it's gettin' nitpicky in here... I think I made my point okay the first time.

fatherphil

what is the role of "man"? i guess i figure him to be the provider/defender. not necesarily a hard fast rule (no pun intended) but rather a practical generalization.

njhartsh

I plead guilty--what's the fun of being on an atheist forum if you can't nitpick?

- Nathan

RevDahlia

I can understand this generalization if one is living in a time when saber-toothed tigers are a threat, but why now, especially? Doesn't it make more sense for whoever is capable of filling this role just to go ahead and do it? Or for both partners to do their share of providing and defending, according to their ability?

I'm not putting down "traditional" gender roles, by the way, if both parties are happy about it. I just see no point in insisting that everybody adhere to a system which has, in many cases, outlived its usefulness.

Again, within a family there are many things which need to be accomplished. Everyone must be fed, children must be guided, bric-a-brac must be dusted, et cetera. It's a big job, made bigger if one insists on breaking everything down according to "traditional" gender roles. It may be practical for some, but is less than ideal for others.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by fatherphil
what is the role of "man"? i guess i figure him to be the provider/defender.

Provider : I didn't go to graduate school in order to depend on a man to feed and shelter me.

Defender : What, precisely, do I need to be defended from? If I'm concerned about burglars/rapists, I will buy a gun or an alarm system or a German shepherd. If I'm concerned about legal matters, I'll hire a lawyer.

I don't slot "man" into one role and "woman" into another.

pilaar

I personally am not sure why people feel the need to define roles in the marriage or why anybody in Western society today would still think that they have to behave in a certain way or take on a certain role in their own marriage, if that role does not fit them. It all depends on the two individuals who are involved in a particular marriage, what their circumstances are and what each persons area of expertise is. All things can be discussed and worked out between two adults and the best solution can be agreed upon, there is no need for anybody to be an automatic decision maker accross the board. Marriage is a parternship between two adult people. Individuals can choose to pass on the responsibility for making decisions to another person and I know that there are women (and men) who do that, but that is their own choice and if their partner agrees to take that on, then there is no problem with that.

I find the notion that marriage automatically needs a leader/head and a follower and for the leader to automatically be a male a bit ridiculous. Even though it may suit some couples, this is not acceptable to all couples. The point is that there are no persons or institutions who have a right to enforce specialised roles on married couple. There is also nobody who can prescribe a marriage upon a woman or a man where one is required to be an eployee in their own marriage or where one is required to take on a landlord in their own house unless that person chooses to have a relationship like that. Sometimes people get caught in such circumstances but there are ways out.

pilaar

scigirl

Hey I'm all for traditional roles. I'll be the husband, and my partner can be the wife. I'll go to work and make the money, and he can stay at home and cook and clean. I would love that!

scigirl

fatherphil

good deal sci girl, just make sure you don't find yourself resenting his opportunity to raise the kids and be pampered and supported like a well deserving and appreciated housewife.

i think sometimes we talk a good game but when faced with reality we tend to feel and act in ways that might strangely seem archaic and old fashioned.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by fatherphil
good deal sci girl, just make sure you don't find yourself resenting his opportunity to raise the kids and be pampered and supported like a well deserving and appreciated housewife.

Yes scigirl, someday you will miss being treated like a prize Lhasa Apso - fed, combed, beribboned and fertilized at regular intervals. How you could turn down a lifestyle of Pampering and being pampered is incomprehensible. I'm surprised, though, that fatherphil hasn't warned you to make sure that your husband doesn't find himself resenting your opportunity to act as the provider/defender and be virile and admired like a well educated and confident professional.

i think sometimes we talk a good game

i think that sometimes we don't talk enough, especially when faced with questions like "Does the possession of a penis automatically qualify anyone to make the final decision?" and "What, precisely, do I need to be defended from?"

but when faced with reality we tend to feel and act in ways that might strangely seem archaic and old fashioned.

Are you using the royal "we" here, fatherphil, or just speaking on behalf of all males/Christians/humans?

yguy

Of course not. Has anyone said it does?