Goliath

Jagged Little Pill,

No problem.

I, too, am an ex-xian.

Why not just respect the people and not the beliefs? There are many xians that I respect. I just loathe their religious beliefs.

That's their problem, not ours. All of the xians that I care about do not seem to be in the least threatened by the fact that I despise xianity.

Fair enough.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Heathen Dawn,

Okay, then, conisder the following revised question (perhaps I should've asked this to begin with): Why should atheists respect any religious belief whatsoever?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Jamie_L,

If said person is deserving of it, most definitely.

And here is where we differ. There is a universe of difference between respecting a belief that someone holds and respecting said person.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Gurdur

Actually, no, there often isn't.
Many people emotionally identify themselves with their beliefs.

It's a tricky tightrope action, but unless a certain belief really is threatening, then you might as well pay a person who holds that belief a certain amount of minimal respect.

Or, of course, you can loudly trumpet just how silly they are, and how their beliefs are a load of junk, all without any real pressing need, and then get all surprised when atheists are perceived as a bunch of supremacist egotistical jerks, and when the ineviatable backlash happens, you can cry yourself to sleep with just how unfairly you are "persecuted".

And atheist nihilists, Objectivists and UFO-believers should think twice before too loudly deriding other people's beliefs....

I.e., you're better pushing for a climate of tolerance towards all non-dangerous beliefs than pushing <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001390" target="_blank">a uselessly maxi, counter-productive atheist line</a>.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

Bible Humper

Why should a nihilist think twice about this, when he rejects all Truths(tm).

I think that you should replace "nihilists" with "humanists" in the above quote, those who adhere to a philosophy that seeks to rationalise how the social primate instincts of the human animal are actually in line with an elusive capital "G" Good(tm) surely don't care to have their beliefs examined too closely!

DMB

When I see debates on this sort of thing, I wonder if we all mean the same thing by "respect", and I suspect that we don't.

For me there is no question of respecting certain beliefs, I am simply incapable of it. In real life, I try not to be confrontational on beliefs, whether they be belief about god(s), belief about ley lines, belief about haunted houses, belief about alien abductions, belief about reiki or whatever. So long as someone's beliefs appear to do no harm to others, then I think that they should be tolerated, but "respect" in this context is quite different from mere toleration. "Respect" for someone's views means to me that I think they have been arrived at by a legitimate path and that they are not obviously erroneous. There are some theistic views that I can respect according to those criteria, but not all that many.

I do think we should all respect the rights of people to believe whatever they want. We should respect the rights of people to practise their religion up to the point where it tramples on the rights of others or involves pointless cruelty to animals. But that, I think, is a different meaning of "respect". It is more akin to "toleration".

Any society I would want to live in ought to be as tolerant as possible. It should not impose a single orthodoxy. Unfortunately, as Heathen Dawn has pointed out, certain religious groups are extremely prescriptive and intolerant.

As far as bulletin boards go, people come to them to debate and discuss issues. They are prepared for argument. In these circumstances, I think it is completely legitimate to attack their beliefs, but, one would hope, not them personally.

[edited to correct faulty grammar]

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: DMB ]</p>

Goliath

Gurdur,

Absolutely incorrect. There isn't a single atheist in my family (save for myself, of course), yet I love my family while despising their beliefs. So I'm afraid there most definitely is a difference between respecting a person and respecting their beliefs on a certain issue.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Starboy

I will respect any belief system that will respect my beliefs. Those that can’t do not deserve respect. Christians want to take over the government, the schools and the courts. They want to pass laws to legislate their beliefs onto the rest of the population. They will not rest until the entire planet is Christian. When you think about it, the parallels to the Nazis and Red Communists is frightening.

Starboy

agapeo

What merits respect for any individual? Is it based on what they believe or on how they behave? If you respect them on the basis of how they behave then don't you essentially respect what they believe? Does that not equally apply regardless of whether those beliefs are derived from a Christian source or secular?

Gurdur

I am fascinated by your catagorical dismissal as it is put in theory.

Now onto the actual facts of the matter:

If you despise a person's beliefs, actually hold them in contempt, then at some stage you must show that person your opinion, if you have any kind of real relationship with that person, and if you are honest.
BTW, "contempt" and "disrespect" are not the same thing as "profoundly disagree".

If you then show that person contempt about their beliefs, quite often they will feel under personal attack, since often they emotionally identify with their beliefs.

Stop me if I'm going too fast for you.