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Old 08-10-2005, 11:42 AM   #1
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Default Confession Time -- Fast was Bad

My better half likes to read the newspaper. She gets 8 newspapers a week. One for every day of the week and two on Wednesdays (a weekly paper).

Every once and a while, the task is bestowed upon me to go to the store and fetch it. Okay, so one day came, and I did just that. After getting the paper home, low and behold, she tells me after opening it up that some of the sections were missing. I didn't examine the paper at the store and neither of us lost any papers to it. So, I carried the paper back to exchange it for another.

The new owners of this store are from India, I think. Anyhow, they can't speak very good English, and they didn't notice me bring the paper back in the store. Anyhow, at the counter, I explained, grabbed a new paper, and waited for the okay to go on about my day.

He said something that sounded like "fifty cents". There was a definite communication barrier going on, and I wasn't about to make a fuss, though my suspicions though probably unfounded is that people are evil and care only to screw others; hence, my irrational thought that they (he and another) knew very well what was going on but wanted to play dumb like a dear crossing the highway.

I could have continued to play this game that I unreasonably felt they were, but no, I decided revenge would be easier—not of the nasty kind, but of the kind that later rights a wrong, despite the prevailing theory that two wrongs don’t make a right.

So, day after day, I passed this place, looking out the window as I passed. Week after week passed. Month after month. No, I wasn’t obsessed, just thinking – plotting - as I passed. As soon as I went by, no more thought was put in it. After all, it was only 50 cents - though a fifty cents I should never have been without.

About six months passed, and the task was once again lain at my feet. It was a Wednesday. I went in with the intention to pay for two papers. I laid one up on top of the other, and it just so happened that the bottom one could be seen. The owner wasn’t paying much attention, and I thought to myself, and then I adjusted the top paper so that it aligned perfectly over the bottom—it didn’t take much, only a quick flinch of the wrist.

Well, anyhow, the clerk looked at what he thought was one paper and again said something like, “fifty cents�?. I handed him a dollar. HE GAVE ME fifty cents back, and I picked the pile from which he looked and judged to be but one paper, and then I did it.

I left the store with the pile. I had two papers and only paid fifty cents instead of a dollar.

I try to rationalize what I have done, but despite what I think, I feel that I ought to be labeled a thief.

When it comes down to it, I was shit out of a fifty cent paper and I responded by stealing a paper worth fifty cents. I know I ought not have done it, or so it’s been drilled in me. I would never do it again, but I probably would if honesty is a must, for given the same circumstances, I would rather live in a world where the ends are just and not be blindsided by the socially accepted means. I’m not married to what I just said, but the following represents my case.

I once walked in store one time, a little wooden store on the outskirts of town, on a Sunday afternoon. I walked in and saw no one. I waited for a minute or so and figured the people must have been in the back. Anyhow, I walked over to the cooler and grabbed a Pepsi and despite my upbringing, I started to drink it. Anyhow, about half way through it, it was only this I began to notice the ambiance. It was a little dark. I noticed a parrot covered in a cage. I noticed the open sign not lit. Can you believe it? The friggin’ store was closed and the door was unlocked!!! <oh, my, sun God>

First, despite what our beloved laws may say about not opening or consuming a product prior to purchase, I do not feel that the drinking of the soda was morally wrong. I finished the drink there at the store. I put the bottle, the cap, and the proper change on the counter along with a note. Although I had wanted more than just a drink when I came in, I decided NOT to do my shopping <good fast—I ought to get a pat for that one at least>

The point is I maintained a balance. What ought to have happened after finding out the store closed was darn close to what would have happened if it had been open. I exchanged $1.26 in cash for a $1.26 item. Awareness (by the owners of this store) at the time of the transaction wasn’t an integral part of the transaction. Later, when I went back to make sure they got my note, there was no ill will befallen on me. What I did ought not be considered WRONG.

My intent in neither of the above two scenarios was to get more than what was due me. In the first scenario, things went wrong because of misunderstanding, and in the second scenario, things went wrong because the store was closed. If the first scenario contained the element of understanding, and if the second scenario contained an element of an open store, then the ends would STILL be no different than the actual ends that occurred due to my activities.

I am not interested in the laws and supposed obligations forced upon me. I am interested in the ends becoming what they ought so long as the means create no further harm.

Is it possible, just possible, that the elapsed time in the newspaper example doesn’t matter? Is it possible, just possible that my wicked intent in the newspaper example doesn’t matter?
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:51 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by fast
Is it possible, just possible, that the elapsed time in the newspaper example doesn’t matter? Is it possible, just possible that my wicked intent in the newspaper example doesn’t matter?
The price you paid is a lot more than 50 cents, 6 months of resentment is a hefty tag to give room in your mind rent free.
Thats why the bible says, 'don't sleep in your anger.'
Get it out , talk about it with someone not prone to rationalizing resentment . Unfortunately that describes a lot of people, they assume justified resentment makes sense because thats the way they think.

I NEVER carry that stuff around, its like mortar, easy to stir when fresh but sets up like cement in the mind after a few hrs of ruminating it over and over.

The time elapsed doesn't matter, the resentment takes on a life of its own and the anger transfers to different people and issues, you might blow up at someone for something they aren't aware of, and the real root is the original resentment ,(which is often long forgotten).

The fact that you seem suspicious of your own motives is actually healthy.
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Old 08-10-2005, 01:33 PM   #3
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Thats why the bible says, 'don't sleep in your anger.'
I think there's a lot of good to be found in the Bible, and I think you are a good person to relay the message you have. I might get beat up for that comment, but as in the fall guy theme song, "what the hey".

Thanks for your post.
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:14 AM   #4
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I think there's a lot of good to be found in the Bible, and I think you are a good person to relay the message you have. I might get beat up for that comment, but as in the fall guy theme song, "what the hey".

Thanks for your post.

There is wisdom in the bible which forms foundations in society, even a shrink who is not allowed to let God in the room during therapy tries to bring relief from anger in patients. Even though they are forced to intellectualize it, they agree in principle.

Some of what passes for atheism is not healthy skepticism at all, its something else.
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:53 AM   #5
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There is wisdom in the bible
I wholeheartedly agree with those sentiments.

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which forms foundations in society
And this too I must agree, but it is this truth that scares me so. If the foundations and traditions of our society that 'keeps us on track' is founded upon those not so wise aspects of the Bible, then what must we conclude in our hearts, or what ought we conclude?

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Some of what passes for atheism is not healthy skepticism at all, its something else.
What must one do? -- What should I do?
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Old 08-11-2005, 04:20 PM   #6
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There is wisdom in the bible
That's 'cause people wrote it.

There's wisdom to be found in much of humankind's works.

And folly too.

But, in the end, it is on the shoulders of humankind that the responsibility for these things falls, no matter what stories they tell themselves to try to push that responsibility away.
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Old 08-11-2005, 06:36 PM   #7
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That's 'cause people wrote it.

There's wisdom to be found in much of humankind's works.

And folly too.

But, in the end, it is on the shoulders of humankind that the responsibility for these things falls, no matter what stories they tell themselves to try to push that responsibility away.
:notworthy
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Old 08-13-2005, 07:51 AM   #8
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That's 'cause people wrote it.

There's wisdom to be found in much of humankind's works.

And folly too.

But, in the end, it is on the shoulders of humankind that the responsibility for these things falls, no matter what stories they tell themselves to try to push that responsibility away.

Those who wrote it didn't attribute their thoughts to themselves though, they didn't say I'm a clever atheist and heres proof.
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Old 08-13-2005, 12:32 PM   #9
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Those who wrote it didn't attribute their thoughts to themselves though
Manufactured authority is a pretty conventional literary trope. It's done all the time, throughout literary/narrative history, From the Classical Muse, through the Bible's appeal to deity, Chaucer's appeals to manufactured Classical authorities, and right down to contemporary urban legend: "no really, it's true. My cousin's best friend knows a guy who saw it happen."

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they didn't say I'm a clever atheist and heres proof.
Of course not. People tend to pay more attention if you claim that your words are inspired by God. Especially if you're trying to get them to -do- something.

It's not like people usually respond well to the dictates of reason. Usually, if you want people to do something, you have to piss 'em off, scare 'em, or promise them something that they want really badly.

God's a pretty useful human construct, in those terms. Whole lotta very useful 'carrot' and 'stick' built into the Judeo/Christian tradition. Makes for a pretty compelling story.
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fast

My intent in neither of the above two scenarios was to get more than what was due me. In the first scenario, things went wrong because of misunderstanding, and in the second scenario, things went wrong because the store was closed. If the first scenario contained the element of understanding, and if the second scenario contained an element of an open store, then the ends would STILL be no different than the actual ends that occurred due to my activities.

I am not interested in the laws and supposed obligations forced upon me. I am interested in the ends becoming what they ought so long as the means create no further harm.

Is it possible, just possible, that the elapsed time in the newspaper example doesn’t matter? Is it possible, just possible that my wicked intent in the newspaper example doesn’t matter?
What is truly surprising here is that you recall so accurately all the details of the plotting and scheming. There is a certain kind of practical logic that should prevail here that appears somehow to have failed. The taking of the second newspaper, the perception that the Indian newstand guy truly didn't understand, the amount of time spent thinking it out and then repenting and beating yourself up on the internet seem to militate against this action being much good. Who was hurt? Who could have been hurt the most?

Consider yourself lucky...that you got the chance to relate this tale to us...
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