Heathen Dawn

Assertions, assertions and more assertions; and not one word in sight as evidence that the Bible is more than a book of primitive mythology.

Biff the unclean

Magus since it upsets you so when we ridicule you and tell you how hateful a person you are, wouldn't you feel better if you stopped writing such ridiculous and hateful things?

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
God made Hell for Satan and his demons. Humans made Hell a possible fate by disobeying and rejecting God.

That turned all humans into demons, thus qualifying them for hell.

By His divine righteousness, He has to punish sinners.

Especially the child sinners, the baby sinners and the newborn sinners. You'd be amazed at how many of those he slaughtered.

Satan already rebelled against God. His fate is sealed. Satan can never be redeemed or forgiven.

Not even if he repents of his sins and receives Jesus Christ as his lord and savior? Man, and here I was thinking that with god, all things were possible.

He will be in the Lake of Fire for eternity, with no exceptions.

I'll remind him to take his asbestos Speedo along. Or you can do it for me, if I forget.

Now, if you knew your future destiny was eternal torment with no relief,

My future destiny is to have intolerant fundamentalists preaching at me constantly?

would you do everything in your power until that time to get back at your enemy?

No, I don't like those kinds of weird fetishistic devices, and I prefer fiber for regular.... oh wait, you said enemy. My mistake.

But, the thing God wants the most is for all humans to turn away from sin, accept His gift of salvation,

It's one of those gifts which is completely free, but you have to pay the sales tax on it, the shipping charges, the handling charges, the signing-over fee, and oh yes, there's the small matter of the extra warranty money...

and have fellowship with Him for eternity.

Because he would be lonely as a little kid in an empty orphanage otherwise. Please, think of the god.

Satan wants to take away as many people from God as He can, because God doesn't want anyone to perish.

Unless they're in the Old Testament, in which case, perish away, along with their children!

Satan doesn't torment anyone,

Unless they're in the Old Testament and they happen to be called Job.

Satan will be punished himself along with unsaved humans.

God will spank him, and spank him mightily, until he crieth out in a loud voice.

Why would Satan reward you?

Because it's Christmas Day and you've been a very good little boy.

Oh wait, that's Santa.

He is probably laughing at everyone

At least he has a sense of humor, which puts him one step above God.

who is rejecting God, full of himself for stealing humans away from God's love.

Isn't there a song called The kind of love that saves you? We could make up an alternative song for your god, called The kind of love that kills you.

Satan makes Hitler look like Mother Theresa,

Considering what Mother Theresa did, that's a pretty worthless comparison.

he is evil beyond words.

And yet you struggle manfully to depict his depravity? Bravo.

Lucifer (Satan) was banished to Hell for rebelling against God and trying to take over the throne.

Maybe he just couldn't wait one minute longer. He must have had a lot of coffee.

Satan tempts people to get back at God for punishing him.

He also tempts them as a kind of game he plays with God. See Job, again.

God doesn't tempt people with the pleasures of Heaven.

Because there aren't any.

There is a reason Heaven is the least talked about theological concept in the Bible. Hell is one of the most talked about.

Jesus was one of those "glass is half empty" people, you mean?

Reason being, God wants us to know how bad Hell is so we avoid it at all costs.

Too bad he didn't tell the Hebrews about it in the Old Testament, then.

He doesn't tell us much about Heaven for 1) so we don't want to be with God just for the benefits of Heaven

But it's OK to want to be with God because you're scared of hell?

and 2) no human mind can comprehend the majesty and awe that is Heaven.

What, you mean the place with the gold and the precious stones and the tree of life? Guess the author of Revelations wasn't human, then.

1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

In other words, "Failure of imagination. Will leave the whole thing strategically vague. People will fill in the gap themselves, or imagine very good reasons for the gap's existence."

xsquid

Then god is a liar, for anyone who would create a history that never took place cannot be anything else. And why should we worship such a god?
"Stuff this shit, I just don't care." By this reasoning, we are still ravaged by tuberculosis, smallpox and polio, we still eat smaller, less nutritious foods (and no one ever heard of the grapefruit), and we still believe devils cause all diseases. Nice god you got there, bud.

Doctor X

I dislike wasting my time, but I also dislike disinformation.

I have already explained this before. If the individual with a truly magnificent lack of reading comprehension would spend just a fraction--not a complex fraction, mind you!--READING THE TEXTS he would cease to make these mistakes.

Right. . . .

Satan:

stn which is "sãtãn," or "shãtãn" depending on whom you ask, is an obstacle--a "thing" . . . something you, literally, trip over--a "stumbling block." It is a "good" thing if it prevents you from doing something "bad" and vice a versa.

Lucifer ≠ Satan Sorry, this is from the translation into Greek, LXX [Septuagint.--Ed.] of a taunt directed towards a foreign potentate--clear if anyone bothers to read the damn passage in full--which then got translated into Latin.

Satan ≠ "Fallen Angel" the myth of stn developed over time, to be sure. Job preserves a good example as one who tests or "prosecutes"--the text opens with the gods gathered together and our favorite asking "the Prosecutor" where he has been! So much for "all seeing. . . ." The concept of "fallen angels" and all of that required extensive mythmaking which would have been foreign to the original conception of our poor stumbling block.

El/Elohim/YHWH Created Evil

At least that is what "the Good Book says. . . ."

Indeed, this theology of a locative god that does both good and evil was consistent with the period. Hell, Ezekial is happy to have his god admit he ordered child sacrifices in order to make his people commit evil so he could punish them!

Nice guy. . . .

As having your god doing evil fell out of favor, the need for an "opponent" rose--this was a well-known case in many other religions. Thus, it did, in commentary, become common to identify "elements" of a god--his power, his capacity to do evil--with "someone else."

YHWH is happy to send a "destroying" angel to punish the Israelites. Having a "guy" to do your dirty work was not a problem--return to "the Prosecutor" in Job. The one who actually kills the first born of Eygpt--and is appeased by the sacrifice of lambs to avoid taking the Jewish tykes--the "Destroyer"--does become interpreted as "Satan" as a "bad guy" . . . unfortunately, in Exodus he is doing YHWH's work for him!

As these threads have demonstrating, the "problem of evil" and a "good god" generates a lot of thought and many "solutions." As people became uncomfortable with their god commiting evil or allowing it, they created someone else to blame.

Nevertheless, the more original understanding persisted in that "sin" in the NT is really "stumble" and when Junior tells "Rockhead" Cephas to "get behind me satan."

Failure to recognize the development of myth risks such horrible modern misinterpretations of myth as presented in this thread. In no version of the myth does stn "create" a "Hell," nor do the humans create Hell! The concept of "eternal punishment" is rather late as well.

A good reference remains: Forsyth, Neil. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princeton University Press.

Of course, I have recommended this before and Our Little Stumbling Block has ignored it. I imagine he will continue to do so, but then he would be a "bad" stn rather than a "good" stn.

--J.D.

Sci_Fidelity

I don't know which is more pathetic- the fact that Magus posts this tripe on a secular website or that he actually believes it.

Magus55

For such a secular website, you discuss God , Heaven, Hell, Satan etc. more than most fundamentalist Christian forums. I'm fascinated by so many people who either know God doesn't exist, or believe He doesn't exist, yet discuss and fight over the existence of God and the Bible more than a Christian website.

This is a religious discussion forum, therefore i don't think it odd for mentions of Satan being here.

Doctor X

I would argue the most pathetic is his willful ignorance of any evidence that challenges him.

--J.D.

AJ113

Magus, you missed the point.
Again.
The issue is not the fact that this is a secular web site.
The issue is the fact that what you post is tripe.

There's nothing wrong with a discussion involving satan/the devil, but when you wade in with your incessant puerile preaching I'm afraid you deserve all the disdain that you receive.

wade-w

The flame fest will end now, or this thread will be locked.