Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dream LLama · 10-29-2002, 07:09 AM

Genesis 9:21-24

Quote:

And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

To me this quite clearly describes Noah getting passed-out drunk, letting his dangly bits hang out, Ham seeing them, Ham telling his brothers who then cover them up while trying not to look at them.

Now, reiterating my original point, had Adam and Eve concieved Cain before eating the forbidden fruit, Cain would have had no choice but to see his father's nakedness, yet there is no indication that this would have been punishable. Therefore, the Bible is internally inconsistent.

atrahasis · 10-29-2002, 07:55 AM

The preoccupation with sex and sexual organs is manifest when one ponders why God had to choose the mutilation of a sexual organ as a sign of his covenant with Abraham.

Sick Yahweh. No wonder the priests had to wear bells on their ankles as they approached the tabernacle.
Or the desert tribe were the ones who were preoccupied with sex and the related organs. God even loved the scent of roeasted meat. Their anthropomorphisms, no doubt.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Black Moses ]

Starboy · 10-29-2002, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bible Humper:


ROFL

Ezekiel seeing the nakedness of the LORD!

8:2
Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.

1:27
And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

Well, the loins at least. I guess that even Yahweh needs a blowjob once in a while!

Either that or Jesus had a terrible rash or an STD.

Starboy

CX · 10-29-2002, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dream LLama:
But this contradicts the concept of Original Sin

Not really. It is because of original sin that sin in general entered the world. Its a rather silly idea, but it is not inconsistent.

kctan · 10-29-2002, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dream LLama:

To me this quite clearly describes Noah getting passed-out drunk, letting his dangly bits hang out, Ham seeing them, Ham telling his brothers who then cover them up while trying not to look at them.

Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

If Ham is the youngest son, then the quote actually might have something hidden. We can assume that Ham actually did something to Noah while he lay naked & drunk before telling his other brothers so.

Why those two avert their eyes while covering their father's nakedness might be because they might have seen something coming out of some where.

Charlie Sohm · 10-31-2002, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Now, reiterating my original point, had Adam and Eve concieved Cain before eating the forbidden fruit, Cain would have had no choice but to see his father's nakedness, yet there is no indication that this would have been punishable. Therefore, the Bible is internally inconsistent

First off, Adam and Eve were told to be fruitful and multiply before they were given skins to wear. There is no reason to think that it would have been sinful for a child of theirs to see them naked before they even knew what 'naked' meant. But don't forget that the Levitical laws about modesty were written for the Jews leaving Egypt, not for Adam and Eve and the rest of mankind. If you can't look at someone without lusting and sinning, then you'd better either grow up, look away, or ask them to dress differently.

Secondly, Noah got drunk, laid around naked, woke up and cursed the SON of his youngest son. Don't blame God for what Noah said after he got drunk. This internal inconsistency that you think you see is nothing more than the record of a rash man's lashing out after his disgrace had been discovered. Proving once again that you don't have to be perfect, or even really that good, to find grace in God's sight.

offa · 10-31-2002, 05:53 PM

Offa; being naked is being defenseless. Naked does not mean "birthday suit". Ham was Noah's wife's oldest son. She had another husband before Noah. Shem was their first son and the sacerdotal inheritance belonged to Ham, not Shem. Ham was saying, "You lying bastard!" (pardon the pun). Ham exposed Noah for not following the Law, thus, making Noah naked.

10-29-2002, 07:55 AM	#12
atrahasis Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South of Sahara Posts: 216	The preoccupation with sex and sexual organs is manifest when one ponders why God had to choose the mutilation of a sexual organ as a sign of his covenant with Abraham. Sick Yahweh. No wonder the priests had to wear bells on their ankles as they approached the tabernacle. Or the desert tribe were the ones who were preoccupied with sex and the related organs. God even loved the scent of roeasted meat. Their anthropomorphisms, no doubt. [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Black Moses ]</p>

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10-31-2002, 05:53 PM	#17
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	Offa; being naked is being defenseless. Naked does not mean "birthday suit". Ham was Noah's wife's oldest son. She had another husband before Noah. Shem was their first son and the sacerdotal inheritance belonged to Ham, not Shem. Ham was saying, "You lying bastard!" (pardon the pun). Ham exposed Noah for not following the Law, thus, making Noah naked.

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