tommyc

Im not certain about this at all. I can see exactly where you're coming from, but I'm still convinced there is a prejudice against the accent itself. If you've ever seen a British comedian called Harry Enfield, he used to have a sketch show, and one skit was called "The Scousers", in which they had hugely exagerrated scouse accents:

"a'right a'right, caaaalm down, caaaalm down", which could be heard in school yards, offices and pubs across the country when his show was popular. People were laughing at the way the scousers sound and their mannerisms.

Another example is when I say the word "bath", and pronounce it "barth", as opposed to people from the North of England who would pronounce it "bath", with a short 'a' sound. I have travelled to the north of England and you do hear people taking the piss if you talk like that.

hmmm, I think we are reaching a bit of a stalemate here, I certainly agree that accents are a way for some people to identify the region you come from, and then attach other labels to you using that as an identifier, but surely that's what people do when they stereotype on other traits, such as skin colour?

kwigibo

I expected this. it's not really the same, skin colour is a matter of biology, whereas accent is upbringing. prejudice people assume inferiorites are caused by racial history, the same cannot be said of an accent.

As for the harry enfield reference, i have seen that sketch. it revolves around an uneducated, murderously violent family, right? They slur their speech, crop words in a very english way, etc. A well educated or well-spoken scouser would not sound the same. I've heard academics interviewed from all corners of england and that feeling people have towards the subjects of the sketch is unlikely.

I'll try and simplify things. prejudice on the basis of accent is wrong, because it's something that you can't just change, at least not very easily, and there's no reason you should. we agree on that i think, we disagree in that i don't think that prejudice really exists. A lack of language abilities can be helped, so the ridicule of Bush's language and the like is not really prejudice. That's how i see it anyway.

kwigibo

can we agree to disagree, it's getting late

tommyc

Ok, I think the main sticking point here is that you don't feel that prejudice against accents exists. The reason I used skin colour as an example is because mainly people are not ridiculed only for the actual colour of their skin, but it serves as an identifier (as we agreed an accent does) for other labels to be associated with that person. i.e. A racist sees a black person, so they then believe they are stealing our jobs, taking our women, etc.

haha, oh dear, I think I've just argued that prejudice against accents doesn't exist, its just a label, so you were right all along, damn.

there again, here's the definition I chose to use (from www.m-w.com), the definition I would use is in bold:

Main Entry: 1prej�u�dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
Date: 13th century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

so, when you label someone with certain qualities based on their accent, you are doing exactly that, making a pre-conceived judgement or opinion.

tommyc

haha, ok, ok, lets call it a day, sorry, you posted this while I was writing the previous response.

Rusting Car Bumper

I don't understand why anyone gets bothered by this sort of thing.

Getting your panties in a wad about it seems just as stupid as making the joke in the first place.

Frankly, why don't we leave the label of racism where it belongs: with lynch mobs and cross burnings.

DC

callmejay

Actually, I just read an article (sorry, can't find it now) which mentions that stereotyping people from areas which speak more slowly (In the US, the south and rural areas) as more stupid than people who grow up speaking fast. It's supposedly the case in other countries, too.