Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 07-26-2003, 08:00 PM

State U. The only University that counts is the last one you go to.

notMichaelJackson · 07-26-2003, 08:19 PM

ebolamonger,

Remember that the people telling you not to worry about loans won't be venturing into debt themselves, so they have nothing to lose if you owe thousands of dollars to this institution. You will have to spend years giving a considerable percent of your income to paying back loans if you choose to attend U of C, and you also have to pay back loans for your Masters and/or PhD program, so keep that in mind.

I would attend the state university, and attend U of C as a graduate student. Good luck in your medical/teaching journey.

notMichaelJackson · 07-30-2003, 10:48 AM

ebolamonger,

Could you attend your state university during your freshman and sophomore years, and then transfer to U of C for your junior and senior years? That would keep costs down while allowing you to attend U of C.

My best friend is attending a state university for his freshman and sophomore level courses, and will attend an art school in Chicago for his upper division courses. He's saving a huge amount of money by doing this. One of the RAs in my dorm did the same thing, and is now on her way to Columbia (the art school in Chicago, not the Ivy League university in New York).

prollyrong · 07-30-2003, 11:18 AM

Skip school, do lots of drugs, live with your parents, work at Pizza Hut. simple. College is overrated.

IOW, I'm jealous that you have this decision in front of you. I've been there, done that, and I would like to go back in time and do it again sometimes. Of course, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up...

On the other side of the equation:

After nigh 10 years, I figured out that career is a means, not an end. And to that end, I don't believe that it is ultimately important _where_ you go, but _what_ you do when you are there. That is, pick the place that will be the most fun and give you the biggest bang for your buck. Afterwards, you'll likely find that a job is a job is a job is a job. Well, some pay more than others, but, ultimately, you are still going to be doing crap for someone else who has no idea what they want.

And debt don't matter much unless you are uptight about money.

Yes, I know, I haven't helped a bit. Because my point is that it doesn't really matter in the end.

Tom Sawyer · 07-30-2003, 12:59 PM

If the financial considerations are that serious, you could consider going to the State U for a couple of years and then look into transferring your credits to U of Chicago. You'd save yourself tens of thousands of dollars and still graduate with a degree from Chicago.

I don't know what the logistics are behind doing something like that, but if there aren't a lot of roadblocks put up to stop people doing that, you may want to look into it. In terms of the quality of the education, I haven't found that there's a whole lot of difference between universities in the earlier years of Bachelor programs, the differences come in the upper years and post-grad levels, so I don't think you'd be missing much in terms of quality of education doing this.

PopeInTheWoods · 07-30-2003, 01:12 PM

Take this with a grain of salt from someone who got his B.A. at Northwestern, but luckily managed to emerge with less than $8K in debt (this was back in the '80's before Ray-gun managed to hose higher education funding). I voted for State U.

The main factor in the quality of your undergraduate education is your own motivation and effort. I recommend you kick ass at State U., then take your stellar record to a highly-rated graduate school, where you may actually get to interact with some of those Nobel Laureates. Also, too much of the undergraduate experience is dependent on grad student Teaching Assistants (TA's), whose teaching competence will be a crap shoot no matter where you go (and who at U of C will be pressured to devote most of their effort to research by their Nobel Laureate bosses).

That said, Chicago is certainly an attraction. It's my favorite city in the world, and in fact I'll be there this weekend for a college friend's wedding (several frat buddies will be there as well, we're not all stupid people).

Good luck with your decision, and let us know. I'm sure either will turn out great for you.

Andy

Rusting Car Bumper · 07-30-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ebolamonger

State U: cheap, close to home (low transportation cost), i can make money while in school for when i get out. it's a decent school with a large course selection, fairly respectable in the sciences. however, lots of stupid people, frats, etc. small town.

U Chicago: Fantastic school that practically leaks Nobel prizes. Fantastic city. Far from home, expensive to travel to and from, loans will have me selling my kidney on the black market.

It all depends on what you want to do.

If you want to go to grad school or get a Ph.D then going to to top flight school right off might not be the best way.

It is my opinion that undergrad departments in certain subjects might suck rocks even at certain "Great" schools. Just because a school has a bunch of Nobel laureates does not mean that the undergrad education will be good.

DC

joedad · 08-01-2003, 09:18 AM

Many Universities offer Co-op programs. This can be a great way to work off debt and also gain much needed experience, make contacts, etc, but I don't know if that's UC's thing. My one son decided to take the co-op route and will be out in California this Fall as a Junior, and earning a very decent buck. He didn't ever plan to go this route, it simply became financially necessary, so I hope he has a good experience.

If money DOES become your primary consideration in choosing a School, I would be tempted to believe that the money earned under such a program at a UC would pay better than that earned at a State School, at least on average. More likely that's a given. Of course, it all comes down to the competence of the individual in the end.

Just some thoughts.

ebolamonger · 08-01-2003, 12:13 PM

Well, I've decided. It's a little too late to start transferring financial aid stuff to the state university (i had already sent my deposit to chicago, but you can always decline admission and just not get a refund), so I'm off to Chicago for at least one year. I'm making a date with the financial aid office. If I find that extra costs and debt are going to just be too much, then I will transfer to the state university for the rest of my undergraduate education.

Thank you all for your advice...what I'm going to do is keep in touch with people I know going to state universities and compare their education with mine for this first year. If it seems like I could be a getting a cheaper, comparable education, I'm out of Chicago.

I had a teacher tell me that this is the most important and least important decision I'll ever make. I'm still mulling over that one.

View Poll Results: Which university?
State University	17	56.67%
University of Chicago	13	43.33%
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07-26-2003, 08:00 PM	#21
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	State U. The only University that counts is the last one you go to.

07-26-2003, 08:19 PM	#22
notMichaelJackson Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IL Posts: 552	ebolamonger, Remember that the people telling you not to worry about loans won't be venturing into debt themselves, so they have nothing to lose if you owe thousands of dollars to this institution. You will have to spend years giving a considerable percent of your income to paying back loans if you choose to attend U of C, and you also have to pay back loans for your Masters and/or PhD program, so keep that in mind. I would attend the state university, and attend U of C as a graduate student. Good luck in your medical/teaching journey.

07-30-2003, 10:48 AM	#23
notMichaelJackson Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IL Posts: 552	ebolamonger, Could you attend your state university during your freshman and sophomore years, and then transfer to U of C for your junior and senior years? That would keep costs down while allowing you to attend U of C. My best friend is attending a state university for his freshman and sophomore level courses, and will attend an art school in Chicago for his upper division courses. He's saving a huge amount of money by doing this. One of the RAs in my dorm did the same thing, and is now on her way to Columbia (the art school in Chicago, not the Ivy League university in New York).

07-30-2003, 11:18 AM	#24
prollyrong Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: fundietown, ok Posts: 51	Skip school, do lots of drugs, live with your parents, work at Pizza Hut. simple. College is overrated. IOW, I'm jealous that you have this decision in front of you. I've been there, done that, and I would like to go back in time and do it again sometimes. Of course, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up... On the other side of the equation: After nigh 10 years, I figured out that career is a means, not an end. And to that end, I don't believe that it is ultimately important _where_ you go, but _what_ you do when you are there. That is, pick the place that will be the most fun and give you the biggest bang for your buck. Afterwards, you'll likely find that a job is a job is a job is a job. Well, some pay more than others, but, ultimately, you are still going to be doing crap for someone else who has no idea what they want. And debt don't matter much unless you are uptight about money. Yes, I know, I haven't helped a bit. Because my point is that it doesn't really matter in the end.

07-30-2003, 12:59 PM	#25
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	If the financial considerations are that serious, you could consider going to the State U for a couple of years and then look into transferring your credits to U of Chicago. You'd save yourself tens of thousands of dollars and still graduate with a degree from Chicago. I don't know what the logistics are behind doing something like that, but if there aren't a lot of roadblocks put up to stop people doing that, you may want to look into it. In terms of the quality of the education, I haven't found that there's a whole lot of difference between universities in the earlier years of Bachelor programs, the differences come in the upper years and post-grad levels, so I don't think you'd be missing much in terms of quality of education doing this.

07-30-2003, 01:12 PM	#26
PopeInTheWoods Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Rochester NY USA Posts: 4,318	Take this with a grain of salt from someone who got his B.A. at Northwestern, but luckily managed to emerge with less than $8K in debt (this was back in the '80's before Ray-gun managed to hose higher education funding). I voted for State U. The main factor in the quality of your undergraduate education is your own motivation and effort. I recommend you kick ass at State U., then take your stellar record to a highly-rated graduate school, where you may actually get to interact with some of those Nobel Laureates. Also, too much of the undergraduate experience is dependent on grad student Teaching Assistants (TA's), whose teaching competence will be a crap shoot no matter where you go (and who at U of C will be pressured to devote most of their effort to research by their Nobel Laureate bosses). That said, Chicago is certainly an attraction. It's my favorite city in the world, and in fact I'll be there this weekend for a college friend's wedding (several frat buddies will be there as well, we're not all stupid people). Good luck with your decision, and let us know. I'm sure either will turn out great for you. Andy

08-01-2003, 09:18 AM	#28
joedad Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: PA USA Posts: 5,039	Many Universities offer Co-op programs. This can be a great way to work off debt and also gain much needed experience, make contacts, etc, but I don't know if that's UC's thing. My one son decided to take the co-op route and will be out in California this Fall as a Junior, and earning a very decent buck. He didn't ever plan to go this route, it simply became financially necessary, so I hope he has a good experience. If money DOES become your primary consideration in choosing a School, I would be tempted to believe that the money earned under such a program at a UC would pay better than that earned at a State School, at least on average. More likely that's a given. Of course, it all comes down to the competence of the individual in the end. Just some thoughts.

08-01-2003, 12:13 PM	#29
ebolamonger Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA, USA Posts: 685	Well, I've decided. It's a little too late to start transferring financial aid stuff to the state university (i had already sent my deposit to chicago, but you can always decline admission and just not get a refund), so I'm off to Chicago for at least one year. I'm making a date with the financial aid office. If I find that extra costs and debt are going to just be too much, then I will transfer to the state university for the rest of my undergraduate education. Thank you all for your advice...what I'm going to do is keep in touch with people I know going to state universities and compare their education with mine for this first year. If it seems like I could be a getting a cheaper, comparable education, I'm out of Chicago. I had a teacher tell me that this is the most important and least important decision I'll ever make. I'm still mulling over that one.

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