Freethought & Rationalism Archive

03-12-2003, 07:26 PM

By hinduwoman

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Toto
Pastor Deacon Fred of Landover Baptist sets us all straight:

Yoga: A Religion for Sex Addicts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That should bring in even more 'converts' to yoga.

My reply : Not funny. Who is this guy - Deacon Fred anyway? He supposed to be a Pastor but he slapped a guy across the face so hard till his teeth fall out for asking a question? IF anyone raise a hand on me, he will be going home minus one limb.

Stupid Christians ... as if their pastors now are any better. There several reports of Christian churchmen taking advantages of men, women and children from US.

ProNihil · 03-12-2003, 07:32 PM

No, Yoga should not be taught in public schools. If someone wants to teach the exercises then fine, but they need to call it something other than Yoga. While the exercises are good for the body, true Yoga consists of much, much more.

If one was to teach just the exercises, then that would be fine. Yoga on the other hand is the logical offshoot of Hinduism in regards to the physical making it possible to transcend the "real world" and enter into a state of union (Yoga essentially means "union with the divine" or "union with god.")

The philosophical aspect of the physical exercises of Yoga cannot be seperated whilst still calling it Yoga. It would be, to the Hindu cosmology, incomplete. Thus, if the exercises are to be taught, it should be done so with emphasis on the physical and mental benefiets of the practice as opposed to the eastern philosophies in which it is so entwined.

This really is one of my pet peeves. People who go around and claim to have certain knowledge of ancient esoteric (insofar as the western tradition is concerned) practices when all they really have is an amalgamation of "neat sounding" philosophical bits borrowed from many religious institutions and put together to form some kind of new age bullshit. It is the same as someone calling themselves a Christian because their parents were, or because they go to church every Sunday, or whatever.

In order to call yourself anything, you have to at least adhere to the basic tenents of that thing. Otherwise you have some kind of existential garbage that isn't worth the dog shit on the bottom of my shoe, but will nonetheless fool those unfortunate enough, or perhaps stupid enough to buy into spiritual fodder because it suits their particular dilemmas at the time.

Sorry for the rant, but this subject really gets me going because it irritates the hell out of me that the smartest beings on the planet refuse to THINK and use their naturally developed sense of reasoning. See, there I go again.

03-12-2003, 07:35 PM

Sorry for the rant, but this subject really gets me going because it irritates the hell out of me that the smartest beings on the planet refuse to THINK and use their naturally developed sense of reasoning.

Smartest beings on the Planet? Who/what did you compare Humanity to in order to put such title?

Just because humanity can do better things than other species, that doesn't make them smart, JUST more adaptable to their environment (especially in tool making).

ProNihil · 03-12-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
[B]

Just because humanity can do better things than other species, that doesn't make them smart, JUST more adaptable to their environment (especially in tool making).

Well, if you want to get into this, then I suggest we find an appropriate definition of "smart" or perhaps intelligence. I would think that this is a pretty easy one, but if you think that dolphins or elephants are "smarter" than people, then youre gonna have to say why because without that, we ain't got no discussion.

ProNihil · 03-12-2003, 07:44 PM

Oh, and I would say that Humans are the only beings that use "reason" as defined by any textbook on logic that you could find.

03-12-2003, 07:47 PM

Well, if you want to get into this, then I suggest we find an appropriate definition of "smart" or perhaps intelligence. I would think that this is a pretty easy one, but if you think that dolphins or elephants are "smarter" than people, then youre gonna have to say why because without that, we ain't got no discussion.

Each species which is successfull in its own environment can be considered intelligence - because it can manipulate itself and its surroundings to survive. In that context, just about every species which managed to survive till now despite of its natural pedators (minus the humans) are smart.

Humans are simply more successful because they could make tools which compensate for their lack of other advantages. In that context, humans are NOT the smartest, they simply more sucessful.

ProNihil · 03-12-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
[B]

Humans are simply more successful because they could make tools which compensate for their lack of other advantages. In that context, humans are NOT the smartest, they simply more sucessful.

You say, "because they could make tools" and use that argument as though the making of tools for a specific purpose was somehow not related to intelligence. Hogwash! Just because a group of sentient beings doesn't use what only nature provides doesn't mean that they aren't smart. It demonstrates just the opposite. And you still haven't told me what "smart" is. Mabye some of the human tribes we find in indonesia and africa are "smart" because they live in "harmony" with nature, and are not as technologically advanced as we in the western hemisphere are. Or perhaps you mean to say that they are more "in tune" with the universe or something like that.

I am relating "smart" to fittest here. In other words, "survival of the fittest." In this context, the more successful are indeed the "smartest" because they are the more successful.

03-12-2003, 09:33 PM

You say, "because they could make tools" and use that argument as though the making of tools for a specific purpose was somehow not related to intelligence. Hogwash! Just because a group of sentient beings doesn't use what only nature provides doesn't mean that they aren't smart. It demonstrates just the opposite. And you still haven't told me what "smart" is. Mabye some of the human tribes we find in indonesia and africa are "smart" because they live in "harmony" with nature, and are not as technologically advanced as we in the western hemisphere are. Or perhaps you mean to say that they are more "in tune" with the universe or something like that.

My reply : Let me point out something about how "successful" humans are.

Humans' track records when comes to war and destruction is beyond any other species on the Planet.

Humans changed and destroyed more of his surroundings than any other species on the planet.

Humans had wasted natural resources by buildings things which they don't need (example cosmetics, clothings that serves anything but to protect oneselves from the weather etc).

Humans are not living by nature, they simply using it to their advantage. This is not being smart, just being a parasite in nature.

I am relating "smart" to fittest here. In other words, "survival of the fittest." In this context, the more successful are indeed the "smartest" because they are the more successful.

My question : Survival of the fittest? Fittest? :notworthy Reminds me of a dialogue I've once read :

"You keep saying that it is the survival of the fittest ... but tell me, how fit ARE you?" - Magneto talking to a large, blue guy (named something similar to doomsday) in X-Men Omega.

Humans are not fit, they have no natural defense or offence like fangs or claws to fight of natural predators. His sensors are poorly adapted to the environment in terms of it isn't as strong as other creatures. So to make long story short, humans are the weaks in all the creatures born of this world. Maybe that is why they so successful in tool-making, their fear had drove them forward.

What about now ... look at the way humans live. Premature sex which brings forward sickness, overpopulation due to unwanted pregnancies etc. You really think Humans are fit? They are weak mentally, physicall and spiritually.

Toto · 03-12-2003, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim

My reply : Not funny. Who is this guy - Deacon Fred anyway? He supposed to be a Pastor but he slapped a guy across the face so hard till his teeth fall out for asking a question? . . . .

It's a PARODY.

03-12-2003, 09:44 PM

It's a PARODY.

A what?

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03-12-2003, 07:26 PM	#41
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By hinduwoman quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Toto Pastor Deacon Fred of Landover Baptist sets us all straight: Yoga: A Religion for Sex Addicts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That should bring in even more 'converts' to yoga. My reply : Not funny. Who is this guy - Deacon Fred anyway? He supposed to be a Pastor but he slapped a guy across the face so hard till his teeth fall out for asking a question? IF anyone raise a hand on me, he will be going home minus one limb. Stupid Christians ... as if their pastors now are any better. There several reports of Christian churchmen taking advantages of men, women and children from US.

03-12-2003, 07:32 PM	#42
ProNihil Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 228	No, Yoga should not be taught in public schools. If someone wants to teach the exercises then fine, but they need to call it something other than Yoga. While the exercises are good for the body, true Yoga consists of much, much more. If one was to teach just the exercises, then that would be fine. Yoga on the other hand is the logical offshoot of Hinduism in regards to the physical making it possible to transcend the "real world" and enter into a state of union (Yoga essentially means "union with the divine" or "union with god.") The philosophical aspect of the physical exercises of Yoga cannot be seperated whilst still calling it Yoga. It would be, to the Hindu cosmology, incomplete. Thus, if the exercises are to be taught, it should be done so with emphasis on the physical and mental benefiets of the practice as opposed to the eastern philosophies in which it is so entwined. This really is one of my pet peeves. People who go around and claim to have certain knowledge of ancient esoteric (insofar as the western tradition is concerned) practices when all they really have is an amalgamation of "neat sounding" philosophical bits borrowed from many religious institutions and put together to form some kind of new age bullshit. It is the same as someone calling themselves a Christian because their parents were, or because they go to church every Sunday, or whatever. In order to call yourself anything, you have to at least adhere to the basic tenents of that thing. Otherwise you have some kind of existential garbage that isn't worth the dog shit on the bottom of my shoe, but will nonetheless fool those unfortunate enough, or perhaps stupid enough to buy into spiritual fodder because it suits their particular dilemmas at the time. Sorry for the rant, but this subject really gets me going because it irritates the hell out of me that the smartest beings on the planet refuse to THINK and use their naturally developed sense of reasoning. See, there I go again.

03-12-2003, 07:35 PM	#43
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry for the rant, but this subject really gets me going because it irritates the hell out of me that the smartest beings on the planet refuse to THINK and use their naturally developed sense of reasoning. Smartest beings on the Planet? Who/what did you compare Humanity to in order to put such title? Just because humanity can do better things than other species, that doesn't make them smart, JUST more adaptable to their environment (especially in tool making).

03-12-2003, 07:44 PM	#45
ProNihil Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 228	Oh, and I would say that Humans are the only beings that use "reason" as defined by any textbook on logic that you could find.

03-12-2003, 07:47 PM	#46
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Well, if you want to get into this, then I suggest we find an appropriate definition of "smart" or perhaps intelligence. I would think that this is a pretty easy one, but if you think that dolphins or elephants are "smarter" than people, then youre gonna have to say why because without that, we ain't got no discussion. Each species which is successfull in its own environment can be considered intelligence - because it can manipulate itself and its surroundings to survive. In that context, just about every species which managed to survive till now despite of its natural pedators (minus the humans) are smart. Humans are simply more successful because they could make tools which compensate for their lack of other advantages. In that context, humans are NOT the smartest, they simply more sucessful.

03-12-2003, 09:33 PM	#48
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	You say, "because they could make tools" and use that argument as though the making of tools for a specific purpose was somehow not related to intelligence. Hogwash! Just because a group of sentient beings doesn't use what only nature provides doesn't mean that they aren't smart. It demonstrates just the opposite. And you still haven't told me what "smart" is. Mabye some of the human tribes we find in indonesia and africa are "smart" because they live in "harmony" with nature, and are not as technologically advanced as we in the western hemisphere are. Or perhaps you mean to say that they are more "in tune" with the universe or something like that. My reply : Let me point out something about how "successful" humans are. Humans' track records when comes to war and destruction is beyond any other species on the Planet. Humans changed and destroyed more of his surroundings than any other species on the planet. Humans had wasted natural resources by buildings things which they don't need (example cosmetics, clothings that serves anything but to protect oneselves from the weather etc). Humans are not living by nature, they simply using it to their advantage. This is not being smart, just being a parasite in nature. I am relating "smart" to fittest here. In other words, "survival of the fittest." In this context, the more successful are indeed the "smartest" because they are the more successful. My question : Survival of the fittest? Fittest? :notworthy Reminds me of a dialogue I've once read : "You keep saying that it is the survival of the fittest ... but tell me, how fit ARE you?" - Magneto talking to a large, blue guy (named something similar to doomsday) in X-Men Omega. Humans are not fit, they have no natural defense or offence like fangs or claws to fight of natural predators. His sensors are poorly adapted to the environment in terms of it isn't as strong as other creatures. So to make long story short, humans are the weaks in all the creatures born of this world. Maybe that is why they so successful in tool-making, their fear had drove them forward. What about now ... look at the way humans live. Premature sex which brings forward sickness, overpopulation due to unwanted pregnancies etc. You really think Humans are fit? They are weak mentally, physicall and spiritually.

03-12-2003, 09:44 PM	#50
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	It's a PARODY. A what?

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