Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MattofVA · 01-03-2003, 12:10 AM

Hello, infidels. I've only posted or responded here at II a handful of times, but I hope I could get a variety of feedback(from freethinkers) on this personal issue we must all struggle with at some point. I am terrified of death. I am young, and in reasonable health, but there are always accidents and such.
You see, as both a former Xian and a general observer of the world, I believe it is probable that death means "game over."
On the other hand, if we're worng and there is a god, it would more probably be the sadistic, twisted Judeo-Christian god than some liberal/new age/deist version of god . I say this because of the way nature operates-it is, in short, far from benign, just, or loving. So, am I wrong to conclude this based on what we see around us?
OTOH, if there is simply oblivion after we assume room temperature, wouldn't it suck to not find out what happened. Yes, we wouldn't even be conscious to have that sucky feeling, but the mystery may terrify us in those last moments, would it not?
Well, I hope to hear how others have dealt, or are struggling themselves with this.
I know that thoughful people cannot completely escape this issue after about toddlerhood.
Good weekend all.
Matt

Malcolm · 01-03-2003, 04:33 AM

Hi Matt,

Thanks for posting on this topic. There are a few others who have voiced similar concerns in the past, and I have no doubt that you will get a lot of advice. It is something which a lot of people - theist and atheist - worry about. I worried more about it when I was a christian than I do now, because I then fervently believed in Hell. No matter how much I was given "assurance of salvation" etc, I always had nightmares that when it came to "judgement day" God would see the real me inside, know that I was a fake (no matter how desperately I tried to be as spiritual as I could) and cast me into Hell. Becoming an atheist - over a loooong period - has thankfully removed from me the belief in Hell and I now have much less fear of death.

Quote:

On the other hand, if we're worng and there is a god, it would more probably be the sadistic, twisted Judeo-Christian god than some liberal/new age/deist version of god

I disagree entirely! The "sadistic, twisted Judeo-Christian god" is only a creation of sadistic, twisted minds. The people who promote such a view base their thoughts on the lowest and worst things in life - evil, punishment, revenge, hatred, nationalism, narrow-mindedness, intolerance and grossly inflated views of their own power.

If I am wrong and there really is a god, I would think that by definition he/she/it would value the higher things in life - love, peace, honesty, intellectual curiosity, forgiveness, tolerance, humility etc. If I try to live my life by those standards - even if I fail to find any convincing evidence in god and thus don't believe in him - then I would hope that any decent god would appreciate that.

Carlos · 01-03-2003, 09:10 AM

I don't think much about death any more, but when I do it's about how I will die, those I will have left behind and all the arrangements that will have to be made (funeral or lack thereof, organ donation, etc.). I believe that this is it, that, like you said, death means "game over." Whatever fears or doubt I had about an afterlife faded as my belief in God did.

I do find it upsetting that I will never know if I am correct. I will only find out if I am wrong. But while this bugs me, I remind myself that the merit of a belief is not in the rewards and that I should hold to those beliefs I find to be correct even if they are unpleasant.

I disagree with your view that if there is a God, it is likely to be the Judeo-Christian one. If anything it seems like a deist God might be in charge - the universe was created and then God stepped behind the curtains, never to be seen again. I see no evidence of a God in this world. Our understanding of nature and its phenomena grows to the point where we can explain and even predict what will happen. Events follow their own course without apparent interference. Little by little we eliminate God's power by attributing it to the laws of the universe. Where is God, I ask? A sadistic and twisted God would result in more pain, while a kind God would be the source of so much good. Neither one is to be seen. Instead, the world and its inhabitants keep on acting on their own accord.

But, let us suppose there is such a being as God. What implications does that have on the concept of an afterlife? While the idea of God or Gods has been present in nearly all cultures, the details differ greatly. There is no agreement on what an afterlife entails. No one knows; no one can know. I chose not to let this bother me. I see no sense in worrying about something which I have no knowledge or control over.

Miss Piggy · 01-03-2003, 09:59 AM

A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion about how atheists cope with death. The thread is
here .

I'm also sure that both the Judeo-Christian God and New Age God are very, very unlikely. They are both just projections of people's hopes and fears.

MollyMac · 01-03-2003, 12:50 PM

But how can there possibly be a god???

Sorry but I find the big sky daddy idea so utterly bizarre that I can't give it serious contemplation for even a fraction of a second. It is just so ridiculous that I frequently want to scream with laughter when I hear people - particularly those who are not obviously suffering from some kind of mental illness - actually talking about it in all seriousness.

The fact that I feel this way means that I am not all worried about what's going to happen to me after my death. My worries are entirely about whether I'm going to achieve everything I want to while I'm alive and in good health and how long my good health is going to hold up now that I'm middle aged.

I occasionally frighten myself with the possibility that my life is suddenly going to end (e.g. in an accident) and the effect that will have on the people who love me and depend on me, particularly my children. But I've long been reconciled to the fact that it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone - including my children, which is much more painful to contemplate - and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it so it's not worth worrying about.

I concentrate on making the most of my life and living it to the full and am basically too busy to care about the fact that I'll never 'find out what happened'.

sweep · 01-03-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

I say this because of the way nature operates-it is, in short, far from benign, just, or loving. So, am I wrong to conclude this based on what we see around us?

is it benign for a being to live forever? nature works; that's all the justification that nature needs.

Is it arbitrary that we become what we do? please don't let me be born a cat or a pedophile, or a soldier.

I have to ask if something comes from nothing: can the universe be uncaused, can anything be uncaused? If I am going to the same place/state that I was then what triggered me? Isn't it possible, from an arbitrary state, to become anything. Isn't that even more scary? Couldn't I become/transform into a moth, or a god, or an animal that eats planets?

What is it to be alive? Isn't sensitivity part of becoming alive, and, if so, doesn't that mean some people live, but don't feel alive? How predictable are you? isn't sameness death?

Garbles18 · 01-04-2003, 08:41 AM

A year ago I had to be put under with an I.V. drip so I could have some teeth pulled. Almost as soon as the liquid hit my veins the world just faded out and I knew nothing, thought nothing, and dreamed nothing. It was one of the strangest experiences of my life.

After I finally could think straight about 24 hours later, it occured to me that dying would probably be the same. One second you are alive and the next the world just fades into nothingness. It kind of freaked me out that I had experienced what death was like but it really wasn't bad at all.

So, for me personally, I think death is going to be just like that I.V. drip and I don't fear that part at all. What I do fear is a painful death. I don't like pain and if I'm going to go I want it to be quick.

So if you want to find out what death is like, I suggest being put under for something. Even if you don't agree that death would be like that, it is still a very interesting experience.

Linda · 01-04-2003, 08:56 AM

I think death is just non-existence and I too hope for a painless moment when the time comes.

I can't remember who said it but someone said that "I didn't exist for millions of years before I was born and it didn't seem to bother me so the fact that I won't exist after death doesn't bother me either" or words to that effect.

L. Noctivagans · 01-04-2003, 10:07 AM

I don't fear death... I'm just not ready to die yet. Got stuff to do, and all. But my fear is reserved for the feelings of the people I'd leave behind, and the work I'd leave unfinished. Fear of what comes after I kick the bucket just isn't there. In fact, I'm kinda curious. It is, after all, the only sure way to know what happens after death.

01-03-2003, 12:10 AM	#1
MattofVA Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 112	fear of death-somewhat original I think Hello, infidels. I've only posted or responded here at II a handful of times, but I hope I could get a variety of feedback(from freethinkers) on this personal issue we must all struggle with at some point. I am terrified of death. I am young, and in reasonable health, but there are always accidents and such. You see, as both a former Xian and a general observer of the world, I believe it is probable that death means "game over." On the other hand, if we're worng and there is a god, it would more probably be the sadistic, twisted Judeo-Christian god than some liberal/new age/deist version of god . I say this because of the way nature operates-it is, in short, far from benign, just, or loving. So, am I wrong to conclude this based on what we see around us? OTOH, if there is simply oblivion after we assume room temperature, wouldn't it suck to not find out what happened. Yes, we wouldn't even be conscious to have that sucky feeling, but the mystery may terrify us in those last moments, would it not? Well, I hope to hear how others have dealt, or are struggling themselves with this. I know that thoughful people cannot completely escape this issue after about toddlerhood. Good weekend all. Matt

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01-03-2003, 09:10 AM	#3
Carlos Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 545	I don't think much about death any more, but when I do it's about how I will die, those I will have left behind and all the arrangements that will have to be made (funeral or lack thereof, organ donation, etc.). I believe that this is it, that, like you said, death means "game over." Whatever fears or doubt I had about an afterlife faded as my belief in God did. I do find it upsetting that I will never know if I am correct. I will only find out if I am wrong. But while this bugs me, I remind myself that the merit of a belief is not in the rewards and that I should hold to those beliefs I find to be correct even if they are unpleasant. I disagree with your view that if there is a God, it is likely to be the Judeo-Christian one. If anything it seems like a deist God might be in charge - the universe was created and then God stepped behind the curtains, never to be seen again. I see no evidence of a God in this world. Our understanding of nature and its phenomena grows to the point where we can explain and even predict what will happen. Events follow their own course without apparent interference. Little by little we eliminate God's power by attributing it to the laws of the universe. Where is God, I ask? A sadistic and twisted God would result in more pain, while a kind God would be the source of so much good. Neither one is to be seen. Instead, the world and its inhabitants keep on acting on their own accord. But, let us suppose there is such a being as God. What implications does that have on the concept of an afterlife? While the idea of God or Gods has been present in nearly all cultures, the details differ greatly. There is no agreement on what an afterlife entails. No one knows; no one can know. I chose not to let this bother me. I see no sense in worrying about something which I have no knowledge or control over.

01-03-2003, 09:59 AM	#4
Miss Piggy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 65	A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion about how atheists cope with death. The thread is here . I'm also sure that both the Judeo-Christian God and New Age God are very, very unlikely. They are both just projections of people's hopes and fears.

01-03-2003, 12:50 PM	#5
MollyMac Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 2,125	But how can there possibly be a god??? Sorry but I find the big sky daddy idea so utterly bizarre that I can't give it serious contemplation for even a fraction of a second. It is just so ridiculous that I frequently want to scream with laughter when I hear people - particularly those who are not obviously suffering from some kind of mental illness - actually talking about it in all seriousness. The fact that I feel this way means that I am not all worried about what's going to happen to me after my death. My worries are entirely about whether I'm going to achieve everything I want to while I'm alive and in good health and how long my good health is going to hold up now that I'm middle aged. I occasionally frighten myself with the possibility that my life is suddenly going to end (e.g. in an accident) and the effect that will have on the people who love me and depend on me, particularly my children. But I've long been reconciled to the fact that it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone - including my children, which is much more painful to contemplate - and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it so it's not worth worrying about. I concentrate on making the most of my life and living it to the full and am basically too busy to care about the fact that I'll never 'find out what happened'.

01-04-2003, 08:41 AM	#7
Garbles18 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Lafayette, IN Posts: 43	A year ago I had to be put under with an I.V. drip so I could have some teeth pulled. Almost as soon as the liquid hit my veins the world just faded out and I knew nothing, thought nothing, and dreamed nothing. It was one of the strangest experiences of my life. After I finally could think straight about 24 hours later, it occured to me that dying would probably be the same. One second you are alive and the next the world just fades into nothingness. It kind of freaked me out that I had experienced what death was like but it really wasn't bad at all. So, for me personally, I think death is going to be just like that I.V. drip and I don't fear that part at all. What I do fear is a painful death. I don't like pain and if I'm going to go I want it to be quick. So if you want to find out what death is like, I suggest being put under for something. Even if you don't agree that death would be like that, it is still a very interesting experience.

01-04-2003, 08:56 AM	#8
Linda Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 932	I think death is just non-existence and I too hope for a painless moment when the time comes. I can't remember who said it but someone said that "I didn't exist for millions of years before I was born and it didn't seem to bother me so the fact that I won't exist after death doesn't bother me either" or words to that effect.

01-04-2003, 10:07 AM	#9
L. Noctivagans Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 35	I don't fear death... I'm just not ready to die yet. Got stuff to do, and all. But my fear is reserved for the feelings of the people I'd leave behind, and the work I'd leave unfinished. Fear of what comes after I kick the bucket just isn't there. In fact, I'm kinda curious. It is, after all, the only sure way to know what happens after death.

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