Darth Dane

Are you sure about that? If you are not benefitting, then why are you doing this? Are you some sort of controlled zombie that MUST do this?

Why am I doing this? Because I wish for others to question my ideas, to see if they hold up to scrutiny, by both theist's and atheist's.
So the benefit is the solidification of my belief so to say.



How do you know that?

I've experienced it.

Apparently you believe that you are more enlightened than somebody in here or else you wouldn't be trying to enlighten people. So why exclude me from that category? Who is your message for?

What I am trying to do is let people understand, that when you reach enlightenment or an enlightening experience, you don't change.

A zen buddhist said this: Before I got enlightened I chopped wood and fetched water.
Then I got enlightened, and I still chopped wood and fetched water.

Nothing changes, you are still just you, you won't nessasarily get awesome powers and what not, you still have to get food.

The thing that changes is your perception of the world.



I gotta love people like you. All they can do is answer a simple yes or no question with a question. Darth circles. So I guess I have no choice but to withdraw the question. It's pointless if you won't give me a yes or no (and that was what the question was begging for).

OK, I think I've answered now...

You have no desire to learn anything about yourself. If you did, you would answer the question. You are playing one big joke here and you are the brunt of it. Until you can properly and honestly look in the mirror, you will be nothing but a Darth Pain on this board. Sorry

Don't be sorry, if you are sorry you shouldn't have written it.

For most of my life, God had no place with me, I wasn't taught and didn't give a flying fart either. I had trouble reconciling the OT God and the NT God. How could I believe in this obvious contradiction and others in the bible.

So Yes, I have done that.

Now that I have answered(I hope I have, to your satisfaction) What is your point and why did you wish to know this about me?





DD - Love Spliff

haverbob

Bravo !! Now we're getting somewhere. So you are THE or at A beneficiary. Wasn't what you said in your last post. See? You just learned something about yourself. You've discovered that you still have self serving motives. Excellent !! Be happy about it.

Whatever.


You forgot to add "and give myself a good feeling at the same time"

First true thing I've heard you say.

I think not. Perhaps nobody has ever explained to you the difference between open and closed questions. Open questions require an explanation in the answer. Closed one's require a yes or no answer (and that is all). I would love to see how well your style of thinking would serve you on a witness stand if you were forced to go to court.

Nice try but I wasn't saying that I was sorry for me, I was sorry for you. But anyway, that's way off the track anyway, so please don't bother to answer that

Okay, so enlightentment has fulfilled a need of yours. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have needs like that, then you are not quite enlightened yet although I would admit that you are VERY CLOSE. Just a little more time in the mirror and that should do it.


You did not. See above.

Because I've seen this before. Someone wants to wake up so badly that they create a dream for themselves that they have woken up. But they are still sleepwalking. Any time I see a preacher or a person trying to save someone, I can recognize that they are still sleepwalking (I'll exclude Jesus from that). And they can be more harmful to people than the doubting Atheist. There is an old saying: "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates the teacher and irritates the pig".

emotional

I'm not a New Age Mystic, thinking in nebulous words and revelling in double meanings. I believe in Absolute Truth. Not for me the koans of Zen, not for me the extinguishing of self which Buddha exhorts to do. I'm much closer in my beliefs to Jews, Christians and Muslims than to eastern schools. I'm Western.



If God intends for me to experience Him, I shall experience Him. If not, then my first encounter with Him will be when I die.

Haha! Wrong analogy! My own cat always comes to sit on my lap when I call her!

---

God is the Creator of the universe. He is both immanent and transcendent. Between the Creator and the creation a great gulf is fixed, but He pervades all of the creation. He is the All-Wise, All-Holy Father. He is Love. He saves sinners, cleanses the sins of men. He is the Lord of Life and Death. He is the Light of Love that all who die meet. He is the Reviewer of Life. He is the Lord of Heaven and Hell. He is the All-Merciful. May His blessing shower us all.

Faith rules OK.

Darth Dane

Bravo !! Now we're getting somewhere. So you are THE or at A beneficiary. Wasn't what you said in your last post. See? You just learned something about yourself. You've discovered that you still have self serving motives. Excellent !! Be happy about it.

Old news my friend. As God is self serving so Am I. As jesus says: Give God's whats God's and what is Mine to me.
Jesus was self-serving as well.

Whatever.

Why so scornful?

You forgot to add "and give myself a good feeling at the same time"

Yeah the cosmic orgasm right?

Nice try but I wasn't saying that I was sorry for me, I was sorry for you. But anyway, that's way off the track anyway, so please don't bother to answer that


No read what I wrote... :B:

Okay, so enlightentment has fulfilled a need of yours. Nothing more, nothing less.

Seek and you shall find eh?

If you have needs like that, then you are not quite enlightened yet although I would admit that you are VERY CLOSE. Just a little more time in the mirror and that should do it.

So you are, by this sentence THERE. So tell me how is it there?
What can you tell me about this state of conciousness?
What words, even though none will suffice, will you use to describe this state?
Others have tried before you, I would Love to hear your words.

What makes you able to say that I Am close and you already there?

If you are telling me that when I Am reach there I find myself already there, then it is old news.

On whose authority do you judge my spiritual ascension?



Because I've seen this before. Someone wants to wake up so badly that they create a dream for themselves that they have woken up. But they are still sleepwalking. Any time I see a preacher or a person trying to save someone, I can recognize that they are still sleepwalking (I'll exclude Jesus from that). And they can be more harmful to people than the doubting Atheist. There is an old saying: "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates the teacher and irritates the pig".

I hear what you are saying, yet could you be mistaken with me?
Could all your empirical evidence mean nothing if I was different? Do you leave a window open for this?

A blind cannot lead a blind, but I wish not to lead but to open peoples eyes. I see when others open their eyes, mine opens more widely as well, the synergy is amazing and a thrill, I feel like a child when this happens. And so I look for other children to play.





DD - Love Spliff

haverbob

"I get so emotional baby" Wish I could do little music symbols here.

I lost track of how many I or "I'm's" you mentioned there. You are not ANYTHING you just said you were. That's like saying you are the shirt you wear. If you said that in front of a Psychologist he would ask you to visit his office on Monday. Ridiculous !! Wake up sunshine, (like the drama there??)



Can't disagree with you there.[/quote]

That's unfortunate. But what can I do? Maybe you will have an afterlife and maybe you shouldn't need one. Who knows?

Oh Yeah !!! Well Haha and Hoho to you (God this is hysterical). I point to the food and the chimp only sees my finger and notices my finger has a blemish on it. Congratulations !! I'm hearing the theme song for 2001 Space Odyssey right now. I can't answer that response any other way.

[quote]God is the Creator of the universe. He is both immanent and transcendent.{/quote]
Why are you telling me this? If he wasn't this, then "duh", I guess he wouldn't be God now would he (at least according to the descriptions that we are told and that we make up in our heads)

Wow!! I just finally found the ONE person who has finally figured out EXACTLY what God is. Oh...okay, it's ALL right there in front of me now. Of course. How could I have thought different? Nobody ever told me this before. Okay I'll stop the sarcasm, for now. If you say "well I didn't mean EXACTLY", then I say "then why did you say it?" Why did you say anything? You know? I think I recall that fundamentalist Christianity says you can't paint pictures of God because anything you paint is destined to create a false image inside one's head and therefore block the reality of God. Can't see much difference between pictures and words except the notion that a picture holds a thousand words. Please don't bother to explain to me the usefullness of words, I know they are, I'm using them now

O'TAY, Pankie. It does rule, and you should try it. Looks like you are interested in it. If you could just get rid of the NEED for it, you could go a long way

haverbob

LUKE.... I AM YOUR FATHER. I am DARTH DUDE
I don't remember that quote (could be wrong). I thought it was Give to Ceasar what is his and Give to God what is his (or something like that) Are you sure about that?? Wait a second. That can't be right because if Jesus was saying that, then he would be saying give God some of the stuff and give Jesus (me) some of the stuff. That separates Jesus from God. Go back and check that and get me a cup of coffee while you're at it.



Because I think it's funny. Why else? But I guess you don't if you called it "scornful". In the words of Homer (and I mean Homer Simpson), "that was funny, cause it didn't happen to me."

I usually prefer to use "REGULAR" words, it's usually easier, but if you want to wear a robe, that's fine with me.


I did read it, but if I didn't get it, why don't you simply expalin it to me? Stop with this mystic robe Star Wars kind of crap and come out and say it. You are hiding behind your robe

Of course I'm not going to do that. That's silly. You have been the one that is trying to describe reality to people on this board. That's why you are now asking ME to do that. Isn't it?. I don't describe reality. I don't describe truth, but I CAN identify falsehoods. That's easy because we make them up in our heads and therefore THEY CAN be described quite well because we also made up words as well. So the two work very nicely together.

How would I know I'm there, if I didn't care? You seem to care and strive for this stuff. You need it and that is your final obstacle o' wise one.

That's defensive. You're breaking up Obey Wan. I judge your ascension based on the fact that you just got defensive and maybe a little offended by my statements. Kind of like "Oh yeah, well who died and made you boss?". That's kind of how I read that. If you were ascended, you wouldn't be offended (boy, that was bad poetry).

Who cares whether I am or not. I don't. You care, that's who. That's why you raised that question. Get it yet?

I don't recall giving you ANY empirical evidence. I don't bother with that. Empirical evidence takes care of itself. Why should I be a parrot and repeat what is already obvious and proven. Are you possibly confusing me with someone else on the board?[/quote]

Oh God. That was great. So you are not a blind man leading the blind, you are a blind man teaching people how to see. Right?

Now THAT'S a sincere statement. I'll leave that one be.


At some point, are you going to explain what that means? Why say it if everybody won't understand it anyway? I hope this isn't a Star Wars spell or something that is damning me to an eternal life of shaving Chewie's back.

emotional

More eastern rubbish. I believe the "I" of each person is real and distinct. "Tat tvam asi" - Thou Art That - I reject. Individuality is real, not an illusion, and it's not to be shunned either. Merging into the collective like a drop in the ocean makes me feel sick and pointless.

God is a personal being, not a mystical force.

haverbob

You are not reading my words. You are reading your opinions. You said it was Eastern, I didn't. I don't know if it's Eastern or not and I don't take the time to care because it doesn't change what I'm saying one bit, but you can't hear me anyway. You hear your opinions and social conventions and conditioning and you think it is me. Oh well.


Didn't you say "I'm Western"? Just like all the other "Western" people. You put yourself into a collective with that very statement. I didn't do it. This is hysterical !!! Yes, OF COURSE you are an individual just as am I. I hope someday you get to meet that individual (YOU).

Oh God. There you go again. Did God tell you this? Well next time you talk to him, ask him if he can buy me a Mercedes. If you told yorself this, then stop it,. You are just making love to your own personal needs. Nothing more.

Nowhere357

I'll take eastern rubbish over western garbage any day of the week.

God as a personal being has no support other than ancient and primitive mythology and legend. And if she exists anyway, then of course she's a mystical force.

Also, when a drop of water reaches the ocean, the drop becomes the ocean - in a very real sense. Since the molecules in the drop will diffuse very rapidly through the entire ocean, drawing a boundary around the original drop will in effect be a boundary around the whole ocean. So if this is a metaphor for our spiritual reality, I don't see anything "sick and pointless" about it.

emotional

No thanks. The gnostic idea of "Know Thyself" and "looking at the God within" doesn't appeal to me. I look outwardly, not inwardly.



No, I believe this. You'll believe it too one day.



Hahaha.



Scoff all you want. You'll find out I'm right in the end.