Nic Tamzek

When in doubt, search the talk.origins newsgroup archives at google...


<a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Haldane%27s+dilemma+group:talk.origins&hl =en&selm=3l949u%24n0j%40rebecca.albany.edu&rnum=4" target="_blank">Haldane's dilemma: the real story</a> (1995)

<a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Haldane%27s+dilemma+group:talk.origins&hl =en&selm=3522F061.4F697AF1%40gate.net&rnum=5" target="_blank">Re: Haldane's dilemma in sci.bio.evolution</a> (1998)


<a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Haldane%27s+dilemma+group:talk.origins&hl =en&selm=19991011134712%40this.address&rnum=10" target="_blank">Re: Dawkins Simulation & Haldanes Dilemma</a> (1999)


...that's just for starters, I think there's a lot more also. The first link is a pretty good overview...

Nic

RufusAtticus

Without even reading the papers, I can tell that ReMine exagerates the significance of Haldane's Dilemma. It hasn't even been covered once in my classes. Now, on the other hand, we have discussed

Fisher's Fundamental Theorem
Wright's Shifting Balance
The Levene Model
The Dempster Model
Hardy-Weinberg
Constant Viability Selection Model
A model of Cooperation
Neutral theory
Inbreeding, F-statistics, etc.

But no dilemma of Haldane.

-RvFvS

Automaton

Many thanks for the very kind offer. But unfortunately I live in Australia and my Fax is currently broken. Fate has dealt me a rotten hand in this instance.

Automaton

The devilutionists are covering it up! It's all a part of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy(tm)!

MrDarwin

Nic, thanks for the links. From the first one comes a reminder of something extremely important that I keep forgetting, and I should know better:

To this I would add the gametes: females produce dozens or hundreds of eggs during their lifetime; in humans, at least, we know that the number of fertilized eggs that miscarry is quite large, frequently due to chromosomal aberrations. But males produce literally billions of sperm, and of these the number that accomplish a successful fertilization in the first place are an infinitesimally small fraction. We can conclude that the selection pressure against detrimental mutations, and for beneficial ones (at the cellular level at least) is extremely strong. And since the sperm are haploid, there are no masking effects from dominant alleles.

Oolon Colluphid

Well most of this stuff you’re all saying is over my head a bit, but I can offer to answer your questions.

1) Depends on how you define it, but the usual figure is less than 250,000 years ago, probably nearer 100,000. I think the DNA evidence suggests perhaps as recently as 30,000. But it all hinges on whether one is a multiregionalist or not. See <a href="http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html" target="_blank">here</a> for a review of that.

2) Anywhere between 3.5 and 7 mya, depending on who you ask. Personally, from what I gather I’d say around 4.5mya.

Oolon