Jacey

Unfortunately, I'm sure that I'm right. It's the biggest problem with debating xians. We could show photographic evidence of Ms Agnes (I'm not comfortable with her MT name as it implies respect I don't wish to give) raping children, and still we'd be told "yea but she's done more good than you have blahblahblah."

I think what someone doesn't say about a subject is almost as important as what they do say. And the xians in this thread leave much to be desired.

Sabine Grant

We do not play base ball in our schools in France and while in Africa my mind was preoccupied with realities other than " dodging balls".
I have responded to Rhea and will continue to remain cautious with subjective statements.
It seems that the greatest annoyance Rhea or yourself experience with my position is the fact that I seek evenhanded arguments rather than extreme ones.

Sabine Grant

Hinduwoman ... you have opened up a thread in which you sollicitated opinions in regard to MT. First, you need to try to stop placing words in my mouth. I am not one who pursues a dialogue with anyone who wishes to make assumptions on my account.

I have made it clear why I do not join either sides in either elevating Mt to the rank of saint or your personal bashing ban wagon.
I am not in a position to either worship Mt or call her a " bitch" or a " c... hater". Stop trying to make me abide to one side or the other.
The participants in this thread who cannot bear with what I have stated previously will need to gain the maturity to accept a different perspective.
Again... I am not a person who will be intimidated because I happen to represent a perspective which promotes balance and evenhandedness. I do not care for extremes.
At this point, I have nothing more to state in your thread and I will let you and your audience pursue what you evaluate to be a noble task.
Je tire mon chapeau .... aurevoir !

Calzaer

Nice to know Sabine has a neutral position on Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Pol Pot, Hussien, Lincoln, the Dali Lama, Jesus Christ, and Satan.

hinduwoman

I take that to mean that Sabine cannot defend Mother Teresa. No need to call her bitch if you don't want to, but what about the facts presented?
sorry, but calling all who criticize someone you cannot defend as 'immature' proves nothing, except that you cannot defend her and so must resort to namecalling.
Besides are you willing to be evenhanded in your evaluation of whether Christ was the Son of God or just a human who was born illegitimate? Are you mature enough to accept that radically different perspective?

Rhea

Well, you have responded to me, yes. Although you haven't responded to my STATEMENTS.

Your statements don't cause annoyance per se, they cause amazement.

You "seek evenhanded arguments" - but that seems to mean no one can be accused of anything extreme. You mean no person in history has ever done anything extreme?

I'm not sure what you mean. Have I been extreme? You keep trotting out the swear words which I have never once uttered. So I think I am not being extreme, no?

I am saying: Theresa committed the following crimes and moral failures. I don't think it's too extreme to say "this is what she did. Factually. Do you think these acts are criminal or immoral or not?"

You ignore that question. And instead say that since she picked up one dying beggar on the street as accounted here by an anonymous internet poster - that is enough to outweigh any other thing she did and she is therefore "neutral".

You say you want FIRST HAND accounts. Yet you will only discuss favorable ones. The unfavorable ones are "extreme" somehow, no? You haven't said why. You haven't said why certain firsthand, evenhanded accounts are untouchable.


Yet - you speak volumes with your silence and your prevarications. Volumes.

Annoyed? No, you don't annoy me. Your attitude makes me immeasurably sad. Because, as I said earlier, it is exactly and precisely that attitude which is responsible for the rape of hundreds of children. That, sweet bonsoir, is how it happens. That is EXACTLY how it happens. And that makes me immeasurably sad. The fact that it doesn't make you sad makes me even sadder for those poor kids. And the next ones, and the next ones.

Jacey

Exactly like I predicted hindu............oh well. Disappointed but I didn't expect anything else.

brighid

Sabine,

I have posted many valid questions and yet no theist has actually responded to those questions about MT, why is that?

Brighid

Debbie T

I am curious too, since many came to argue but none seem to respond to valid questions. It appears that some just wanted to show off their self righteousness.

dbporter

I have only recently followed this thread. Having lived in Europe many years I have heard similar stories re: Agnes. Some say that she used the money to build elaborate homes for the Sisters of Charity all over Europe. I personally have not read the books/articles mentioned, so have no way to attest their trustworthiness. However, I have heard enough to suspect that Agnes has misrepresented the truth and possibly committed personally, or allowed to be committed by her organization, chargeable offenses. The galling thing is that it is in the name of God. Sadly, she is quite typical for the church she represented. It is no wonder people are so angry!

It seems to me that Sabine represents herself as someone who does not know the situation that hinduwoman reports and so is reluctant to make statements one way or the other. That does not make her bad or "Xian", simply someone uninformed enough to be cautious. Of course, this is also a surmise, but then most of the comments here seem to be.