Sarpedon

I was trying to give him something that would be useful in a high school or early college level religion survey class. These linguistic speculations are interesting, but hardly useful for such a purpose as I think he has.

hinduwoman

Sarpedon is correct.
The original Vedic Pantheon does not mention the trinity and Vishnu is only a minor god, subrodinate to Indra King of gods.
Siva's Vedic form was Rudra, who seems to represent destruction.
It was only later that the full trinity emerged. Shiva though seems to be an amalgamation of Rudra and non-Vedic deities.
Similalry, the mother-goddess is unknown in Vedas though there are goddesses. Again she seems to represent non-Vedic worship.

Hindu gods of today are very different from the Vedic gods.

Sarpedon

So how IS Brahma usually depicted in art? (if at all)

bagong

Brahma is usually shown as four faced. He is also usually 4 armed. His attributes vary widely; but comonly include at least one grantha (book, representing the Vedas), and a kamandalu (the ascetic's waterpot). His vahana (vehicle) is the Hamsa - which I think might be either a goose or a swan.

He is also shown as Vishvakarman, the Divine Architect, who together with his consort Sarasvati is the patron of artists and craftsmen. In this form he is usually shown as single faced and four armed, with a striking white beard. When in India, I saw that devotional prints of this form were much more popular than Brahma proper.

Hindu iconography is extremely complex, but there are usually a couple of features that immediately identify what god (or form of a god) is represented. In Brahma's case, it's the 4 heads, the grantha, and/or the presence of the Hamsa.

I should point out that the number of arms is never a good way to guess the identity of the god in question - all the major gods have dozens of anthropomorphic forms, with anything from 2 to a 1000 arms.

hinduwoman

Actually though Brahma is the creator of the world and all things on it, Vishwakarma is the name of another minor god. He is the gods' architect and builder, who is sometimes hired by human princes to build their palaces. He looks like an ordinary god (no extra heads or arms), but the giveaway is his vahana elephant.

Since the Industrialization in India he has become popular in India. Vishwakarma puja is celebrated by worshipping the god and then worshipping the tools of the trade, including buses and computers. You might come across a computer wearing a garland.

bagong

Hmm.. all the pictures I saw looked like this:



The person I asked about him interpreted him as a specialised form of Brahma, as he was always shown with the Hamsa, and his consort was identified as Saraswati (who is also Brahma's consort). He also gave a nice little talk on how the creativity of the artist or craftsman is like a reflection of the universal creativity of Brahma. Perhaps that was just an unusual personal interpretation.

In any case, the line between different gods in Hinduism is very vague - minor gods are quickly interpreted as just an aspect of certain major gods (especially by people who don't want to come across as polytheists, like my informant!), and ultimately all gods are just different forms of the same Absolute.

hinduwoman

that is the picture of Brhama all right.
But though one of his titles is Vishwakarma, ordinary people when they hear the name would think of the other Vishwakarma.

Actually this belief in all gods being aspect of One is older than this debate between polytheism and monotheism. There were so many gods in India that the philosphers felt that all are true and so all must be aspects of a Supreme Spirit. Also the leaders of society probably encouraged this thinking --- it stopped people from killing each other in the name of my god is better than your god.

Sarpedon

Thanks! And I'll remember that bit about "don't judge a god by the number of his arms."

Amit Misra

bagong wrote:
I have 3 problems:
(1) Who is Brahmani? Another name for Saraswati?
(2) Isn't Saraswati a bachelor girl? (tushaar-haar dhavalaa, shubhra vastravrtaa etc.?)
(3) Do Vishwakarma and Saraswati drive the same model of hamsas, or is Vishy's model a "krouncha" ?

hinduwoman winks at computers wearing a garland on Vishwakarma puja, but I get bugged no end when our lab's computer center (including mail, web and application servers!!!) shuts down for 24 hours for the occasion. The same hypocritical hindus arrive for work on their cars, scooters, motorcycles, bicycles; use the water cooler, coffee maker, fans, staplers, TVs, refrigerators (in short, machines) all day, but refuse to put in an honest day's work as a mark of respect for the god of the artisan and craftsperson.
Moreover, I hate Vishwakarma puja because it is focused at the proletariat.

bagong

(1) Who is Brahmani? Another name for Saraswati?

I believe Brahmani is one of the Seven Mothers, who appear to be tribal godesses given Sanskritised names for respectability. So although her name would suggest she is the consort of Brahma, I think her actual origins are very different from Saraswati. And of course her cult is very different: she is a fierce goddess of disease propitiated with blood-sacrifices (or offerings that are meant to simulate blood), whereas Saraswati is a strict vegetarian who likes to help you pass exams.

(2) Isn't Saraswati a bachelor girl? (tushaar-haar dhavalaa, shubhra vastravrtaa etc.?)

Well, I don't know what that says, but it seems that the Goddess is a bit schizophrenic - she can be the purest virgin, the ideal wife and mother, or a terrifying witch, without contradiction. So there's no problem in asserting that Saraswati is both a batchelor and a wife!

(3) Do Vishwakarma and Saraswati drive the same model of hamsas, or is Vishy's model a "krouncha" ?

This joke's a bit over my head, but I think a krouncha is a heron. The bird at Vishva's feet is way too chubby and short to be one of those.

hinduwoman winks at computers wearing a garland on Vishwakarma puja, but I get bugged no end when our lab's computer center (including mail, web and application servers!!!) shuts down for 24 hours for the occasion. The same hypocritical hindus arrive for work on their cars, scooters, motorcycles, bicycles; use the water cooler, coffee maker, fans, staplers, TVs, refrigerators (in short, machines) all day, but refuse to put in an honest day's work as a mark of respect for the god of the artisan and craftsperson.

Ha ha, in Bali (Indonesia), Vishvakarma is not worshipped, but Saraswati Puja is every school kid's favorite, because you get the whole day off from school in honor of the goddess of learning. (In fact traditionally you weren't allowed to read anything on this day and had to present offerings to all your books, but nowadays this only applies to palm-leaf manuscripts.)

There is a similar day for honoring machines, but it's not dedicated to Vishvakarma but Pasupati. It used to be limited to metal weapons, but nowadays just about any machine qualifies and you will see motorbikes, computers, tv's etc. all receive elaborate offerings. In fact nowadays the festival is commonly called Tumpek Jepang (Japanese Holy Day) because all the offerings seem to go to Japanese things!