rainbow walking

Humans are evil, and that is why humans have used both science and religion in evil manners. The problem is an instrinsically human problem.

1. Humans are evil:

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. Humans are often WRONG. This does not equate to being EVIL. Humans often use, and encourage the use, of any and all forms of power,( be they scientific, political, economic, or cultural), wrongfully. This does not always equate to EVIL.

2. that is why humans have used both science and religion in evil manners.

Let us begin with the assumption that right and wrong are determined by the furtherance of human existence. Thus the continuance of human existence is right. The dis-continuance of human existence is wrong. Human nature attests to this assumption.

Let us further assume that humans exist in a natural setting that demands a correct response from humans in order to further extend their existence. In-correct response=dis-continuance of existence. No response =dis-continuance of existence.

Thus we can deduce that continuance of human existence is good and dis-continuance of human existence is evil.

Science is the reduction and condensation, via empirical methods, of the complex forces of nature into explanation, prediction and manipulation.


Religion is the attribution of ancient imaginary mystical incomprehensible explanations for the complex natural forces of reality. Prediction and manipulation are impossible.

Science begins with "I don't know" and proceeds to find a correct answer.

Religion begins with "it's unknowable" and proceeds to invent an incomprehensible explanation.

Science facilitates further investigation into nature to determine answers.

Religion facilitates further re-definition of "primitive imagination" to determine answers.

Answers provided scientifically facilitate prediction and manipulation of nature consistently and are thus correct answers.

Answers provided by religion facilitate manipulation of human thought processes to minimize the need for correct answers about nature.

All application of both science and religion begin in human thought and ideas.

Of the two, which of the above facilitates rightness in human thought and ideas, with rightness defined as the ability to correctly predict and manipulate nature to facilite the furtherance of human existence?

Thus Science is RIGHT, religion is WRONG.

Can the application of that which is founded upon wrongness be coupled with that which is founded upon rightness and produce a furtherance of human existence?

Conclusion: Religion is EVIL. Man is not!

[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: rainbow walking ]</p>

Theli

David...

What knowledge does the "spirit of god" include? Parts of his nature?

Comprehensible shadows of an incomprehensible reality is just that - fantasies.
They cannot have any solid knowledge of what they cannot comprehend so they are left with fantasies about it. Figments of ther imagination, that cannot be established as being more trye than their opposites. So, again... Does anyone have any knowledge of "god"? Or is it all just fantasies?

As you cannot claim that Jesus was divine (son of god), then you are no more of a christian then I am.
If you still claim that Jesus is divine you are in denial.

Then I am not mistaken. If you are aware of it, then there is something to be aware of, something you know.
Or are you saying that the whole "Great Mystery" = "God" was just something you made up, and cannot back up?
You weren't sincere?

Ok, that was better.
Wich questions are you reffering to?
And what alternatives are there to find the answer?

How can the mystery inform people? We don't know anything about it.

Does this include medical science?
If you mention trivial, what are you comparing it to?
And don't say "The Great Mystery", because frankly I think not even you know what that is.
I know what it is though. It's a huge Strawman built up by you. Huge!

Distraction.
If it weren't for this "distraction" we wouldn't be able to discuss this today.
I don't know how old you are, but you would probably not even be alive today if it wasn't for this "distraction".
You could try to live your life apart from the fruits of these distractions, and see how you like it.
I think you would very soon start to miss TV, microwave ovens, cars, medicin... and so on.

Comparing to the "mystery", not that is a distraction. Orchestrated by religions to gain power/authority from people's fears and ignorance.

Strawman. We have learned a great deal about the sun. You just mentioned some of it.
That was some "mysteries" that was solved. And there is plenty more.

Need for what?

Yes, you did. You said that people try to aviod believing in god.
And there are alot of monotheists in the world. So there must be some kind of problem with your first claim.

That is not what you said before.

Terrifying to who?
I'm not terrified. I'm quite calm.

I wonder.

[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]

[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]</p>

Theli

David...

And yes, I forgot.
Has god ever done anything?
Anything at all?

Mu

The Typhon / David Mathews mystery...

I smell a troll...

Typhon

What is that supposed to mean?

.T.

Theli

Who's the troll?

Maybe we are all trolls.

David Mathews

Hello rainbow walking,

David: Humans are evil. Humans have a long history of committed all sorts of atrocities and engaging in wars, humans are known to be filled with hate, anger, bitterness, prejudice and lust. Humans pollute the environment, drive species to extinction, exploit the poor, oppress the helpless and are selfish. Humans go out of their way to slander, offend, insult and harm each other, treating both friend and foe in the same evil manner.

David: If science's goal is to guarantee the continued existence of humankind, its actions contradict that ideal. Science developed nuclear, biological and chemical weapons sufficient to drive humankind to extinction. Science and technology pollute the earth's air, oceans and lands which deadly and debilitation chemicals. Science and technology's promise of easing life's burdens has evaporated into the stressful gridlock of our city streets, the lowest-common-denominator entertainment which fills our televisions and the death & violence which fills our newspapers.

If you think that science is right you are wrong. Humans have created this monster called science and it is threatening to drive us to extinction. I wonder how civilization ten thousand years from now will view the failed promises of science today?

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Theli,

David: The Spirit of God is omniscient and so contains all forms of knowledge, including God's own nature.

David: No one has any accurate, legitimate or trustworthy knowledge of God. All we can know is that God does exist and that God is everything that we are not.

David: I regard Jesus as Divine.

David: We can know that a mystery exist, we can know that God exist, beyond that all is conjecture.

David: Science cannot resolve quantum mechanical questions except with probable outcomes, science cannot resolve historical questions except with informed guesses, and science cannot resolve questions which are outside its jurisdiction.

For some of these questions there are no alternatves and therefore they must remain unanswered. Other questions fall under the jurisdiction of philsophy and theology, and these discipines have their own tools for that purpose.

David: The mystery doesn't inform us about itself, it does inform us about ourselves.

David: Medical science is a distraction when we become so obsessed with saving our own life that we cease living. What life is all about is not all these interesting things that science has discovered. The most important things in life are the two commands: Love God, love your fellow humans. If atheists exempt themselves from the first they still remain obligated to fulfilling the second.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

lpetrich

Like wars of religion?

What are you, David Mathews, a lily-livered pacifist soft-on-crime treehugging Democrat who enjoys getting mugged?

While DM's favorite brand of religion is entitled to completely fail in its promise to turn everybody into saints.

Meaning that we could not have been created in God's likeness. And that "God" is not worth worshipping.

Mystery schmystery. If you don't know who is living in a nearby house, do you therefore conclude that it's some extraterrestrial spies living there?

So most of the Bible is superfluous?

David Mathews

Hello lpetrich,

David: Religious wars are an example of human evil.

David: Not by any means.

David: Religion does not fail, humans fail.

David: If you don't want to worship God, don't. If you have some complaint against God, you can address those to Him directly.

David: Sometimes, but only if I live in Nevada and the nearby house is area 51 ...

David: Only in a sense. The rest of the Bible provides the context of these commandments, with examples of the manners in which humans succeed and fail at obeying them.

Sincerely,

David Mathews