Ohio_Infidel

With #1 God created a storm and directed a Whale to swallow Jonas
#2 I guess was explained away already
#3 My memory may be shady but I think God made it so the people who were building the tower could not understand each other
#4 Some people see Jesus as God so I figured that his healings coulc count

B. H. Manners

I see.

Jobar

David, I don't really see this as an EoG topic. Since you are looking for Biblical references, I suppose BC&H is the right place, but it might also fit in GRD.

Do you have a preference as to which of these I should move it to? Or can you explain why it should stay here? J.

NonHomogenized

Not a good analogy. After all, in this case, Sly would have had to created the water, and thrown her in in the first place.

Let's see... god creates hell. God sends non-believers in god to hell. But, no, he's a good guy, because he won't torture you for all eternity, if you just believe in him (but he won't make his existence evident, that would be too easy)...

As I said. Protection racket.

Yes, I'm sure people lock others out of the Lake of Fire Spa and Torture Resort Remember? That's what the bible promises awaits nonbelievers.

Wow. I think you've just earned the gold medal in gymnastics in the mental olympics.

10 "good" men according to whom? The god who not only created the aforementioned uber protection racket, but who also created the universe with the full knowledge of how Sodom and Gamorrah would turn out (even though he could just as easily made the universe just different enough that the destruction of such wouldn't have been necessary)? Thanks, but I don't think I'll be deferring to the judgement of such a being in deciding what is "good" or not.

Oh, and I haven't been able to find 10 good people among the supporters of the religious right. Does this mean they should be massacarred (sp?)?

Jinto

Nah... I've seen the mental olympics. This guy's an amateur compared to Magus55, Long Winded Fool, and of course the relative newcomer sophie (who's probably going to win the gold this year...). Billy Graham is cool will have to fight hard for even an honorable mention.

Cross Examiner

Hello Jinto. It sounds like you wanted a more in-depth discussion--I've got a few minutes:

What makes you think hell is torture? What makes you think hell is physically torturous? Might it have something to do with being a native English speaker from 21st century America? I'm not inferring that hell is fun but there won't be any flames, red devils and pitchforks. Dante; bon drame, mauvaise exégèse. Hint: hell is seperation (quarantine) from God.

God could not tolerate imperfection in Himself so Jesus of Nazareth, the Word made flesh, God the Son, the Son of Man (Messianic reference from Daniel 7:13-14), was cut off from the Godhead and temporarily seperated (3 earthly days) from God the Father and the Holy Spirit /trinitarian doctrine. Consequently, during this transaction, Jesus naturally felt abandoned by God the Father. Ergo: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani!

If there was another way God would've told Jesus at the prayer in the Garden of Gesthemene. Increased accuracy?

Why Romans 9? Well, taking a cue from Paul, have you ever built a statue with clay or playdough? Wasn't it your creation? Didn't you do with your creation as you pleased? And yes, the difference between God and man is that great and perhaps even greater. In any case, you don't have to be on the bad side of this if you don't want to be. How do you know He is not extending mercy to you now, only should you decide to take mercy rather than justice? Mercy is better than justice though you are free to choose either (see Romans 10:9-10 for the "how" of how to accept mercy). Open invitation still stands until you succumb to accident or entropy. Maybe a day, maybe 50 years. God draws whom He will but man still has his free will.

With regards to our friend Pharaoh, and his "unfair" treatment, see here; since I'd rather not reinvent the wheel, or chariot in this case

Regards,
BGiC

Cross Examiner

Good evening emotional. Some clarification?

Hell is a quarantine (light and dark, truth and error, submission and rebellion cannot coexist) for all the willful beings, angelic and human, of creation. If spirit is everlasting, it cannot be unmade, and so hell is the logical construct to separate beings of opposing spiritual natures.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in place so human free will could exist. Without the knowledge or at least the option of the knowledge of evil, can free will to choose between either exist?

Some thoughts.

Regards,
BGiC

Cross Examiner

NonHomogenized, see the previous two posts for a response to the questions you asked that I don't answer in this particular reply. As for the unique question(s):

God.

see previous posts

God's foreknowledge does not equate predestination. Free will requires that the men of Sodom and Gamorrah do as they willed. They did. Horribly.

Shall I make my own laws for what is "good" then? Or how about a vote on each "good", every month or so? Where did those inalienable rights come from again?

So I suppose then that the religious right violently insists upon forcibly raping visitors to their homes, among other depravities?

Some thoughts.

Regards,
BGiC

Jinto

I invite you to look at the attached image, from this tract, and then tell me that hell is NOT torture.

By the way, this is now the second time I have stooped so low as to use a Chick tract as evidence in an argument.

Precisely. Rather than stand by his son when he was bearing the weight of the world's sins, he runs away when his son arguably needs him the most. Some father.

The other way would be for God to stop being such a pussy. Oh wait, sorry, I didn't mean it...

Jinto: *Is mauled by a horde of kittens.*

All this shows is that God doesn't care about the fact that he's hurting us, he does whatevfer the hell he likes. He could turn us all into sex-slaves and his actions would be moral, according to you. Morality dictates accountability of the creator to it's creations, not the other way around. Otherwise, you would be arguing that a mother can do whateverr she likes wth her child, since it is her creation. So tell me, is a mother permitted to kill her child because it turned out to be a boy and she wanted a girl? If not, then you admit that you are not allowed to do with your creations as you please.

By the way, my clay pots have had no complaints about the way I've been treating them. Perhaps this is because I actually take care of them, instead of just doing whatever the hell I want with them. Then again, it might just be because they are inanimate objects.

Now that I think about it, you may be right. I get exactly the same response when I talk to my clay pot as I do when I talk to God, and both of them seem to have similar concerns. Hmm...

But I though that hell was locked from the inside. After all, can you imagine being around a God you never believed in, around a bunch of people you never liked, doing things you've always thought were dumb? How horrid!

This is my problem... neither choice offers justice OR mercy. It really is a choice between mental torture which the evil people of the world would actually ENJOY, and physical torture which nobody likes and to which the innocent are subjected simply because they couldn't distinguish between your omnimax God and someone else's omnimax God. Not, of course, that it's actually my choice, since God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, and nothing I can do will change that.

And this is a triangle but it still has four sides.

A site that regrettably fails to establish:

A. any prior instances of the pharoh hardening his heart, so God's first strike is maintained
B. an alternative explanation to God's stated motive
C. proof that God actually cared about body count, and
D. An explanation for why God couldn't let the pharoh change his mind (or rather, his heart) in instances where the pharoh apparently would have had God not interfered.

And hey, what kind of a God calls a guy that sends his daughters out to be RAPED a "righteous man" anyway? I was hoping you'd touch on that one.

Inconnu

Now, that sounds like heaven! Savaged by the cutest things that ever existed, bring 'em on!

Anyway, perhaps a different way of looking at heaven is an eternity of remembering all those you love, relatives, parents etc, possibly languishing in an eternity of pain. Doesnt make heaven sound so inviting now does it.