bonduca

I would not marry if I thought I would not be happy with my potential partner. A temporary fight would not cause me to look elsewhere for love, but a constant recurring quarrel that could not be resolved, or a persistent feeling of estrangement would lead me to consider ending the relationship.

I would also (have, in fact) questioned the need for loyalty to a deity who is apparently indifferent to misery or (more likely) nonexistant. I have no desire to demonstrate my capacity for pointless suffering.

But as you see, I am an unbeliever. Your mileage may vary.

Vorkosigan

Of course not. Its purpose is authority and control, perpetuation of its own power.

Vorkosigan

I can use the example of marriage. The ultimate goal of marriage is not necessarily happiness (allthough this is a popular notion) but fidelity to one's spouse -- except if the relationshjip is not healthy.

Gemma, you are all confused here. Fidelity is not a purpose of marriage, but one of its defining traits. In modern western marriage two people swear to be faithful and care for one another. These are the things that define what marriage is, but they are not the goal of a marriage, any more than having four wheels and an engine is the goal of a car. The goals of marriage vary, but most people put happiness in there somewhere, as evidenced by the large number of people who divorce when they are unhappy in their marriage.

It is the same with God. Being Christian does not promise happiness, or even that we will always "feel" close to God. But it is our fidelity to God, our faithfulness in time of sadness or doubt, that is important. Anyone can be faithful when things are going great. But if you're in a fight with your spouse, should you look for love elsewhere?

The difference being, that both my spouse and the love elsewhere actually exist on this earth. I can obtain evidence of my spouse's commitment to me, but there is no evidence of god's commitment to anyone.

Vorkosigan

[ July 06, 2002: Message edited by: Gemma Therese ][/QB][/QUOTE]

Viti

My friend is Christian and having serious marital problems which has led to a deep depression and long term affair. I am the only person she has spoken to about it, and I am her only friend who is not Christian. Her depression is worsened because of the guilt she feels and her dissapointment that her faith isn't strong enough.

The other night she questioned my support and advice because I was not judging her based on the Bible...she actually wondered if I had ulterior motives or was trying to make her lose her faith. We have been best friends for 20 years! I told her she should confide in one of her Christian friends or family members and see if she was embraced in love and acceptance like I have done...and told her my only morive was to see her happy, off Prozac, and in ONE fulfilling relationship.

bonduca

LadyShea, that is absolutely tragic. She's lucky to have a supportive friend.

Gemma Therese

Do you support her infidelity? Jesus told the woman caught sinning, "Go and sin no more," not, "It's OK to sin if things are rough." While I feel immensely for your friend, if she is doing something wrong, she should feel guilty and stop the sin.

Gemma Therese

[ July 06, 2002: Message edited by: Gemma Therese ]</p>

Viti

Yeah well, she doesn't know that...she seems to be praying or hoping for a miracle...something that will keep her from having to fix the situation or make a decision. I am afraid that something WILL happen, but it won't be positive (she is caught, her husband hits her in frustration over her illness, she loses it completely....)

Gemma Therese

I have a friend who was married to a physically and verbally abusive man for 17 years. When she went to her priest for help, he said, "Go home and love him." She thought she had been loving him. She finally got the guts to leave when her husband said to their sons, "Go suck on your mother's t*ts for the rest of your lives."

So I really know where you're coming from about telling your friend what you think ... my friend still has troubling talking about the horrific things her sons witnessed.

Gemma Therese

Anunnaki

Many Christans think Christianity is the cure for everything so it`s no surprise they think it will cure depression. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Theres a commercial here in the US for some self help tapes called "Attacking anxiety and depression" which features a testimonial from a seminary student who said he was too depressed to feel Gods love.
I guess you need to be able to feel the love in order for Christianity to work it`s medical magic,but if you`re too depressed to feel the love you`ve got a problem that even the all powerful God of Abraham can`t fix.

Hmm it looks like depression has your God in a full Nelson Helen.
I told you we`d meet again.

NOGO

Helen SL

Obviously, Helen, you don't believe these words from Jesus.

The examples that you gave are enough to show that Matthew 21:22 is not true. That would make Jesus a liar or these people do not really believe.