Jat

Aren't most of the Settlements being dismantled ones which haven't been finished yet with no one living there?

Jat

That's easy to explain, he's an apologist.

Loren Pechtel

She got run over because she fell where the driver couldn't see her--he thought she had jumped clear in their game of chicken. Thus the proper comparison is sitting vs laying down.

Jat

What do the witnesses say, or does their account matter?

Farren

Loren,

Have you ever watched the everyday occurance of a large trucks carrying materials being offloaded? This happens at millions of industrial sites around the world daily and is in the majority of cases accomplished with a men on the ground waving red flags at people and checking blind spots.

Such caution is routine in everyday civilian situations and you don't think greater caution should be exercised in an explosive operation where there are protestors opposed to what you are doing? Please!

Also, I notice you fail to respond when it is quite rightly pointed out that you would have to explain why it is practical that the utmost respect and care for Isreali settlers should be exercised, but exercising such care would, to paraphrase your own arguments, "make implimenting government policy impossible and be impractical" where Palestinians and foreign protestors are concerned.

Your stubborn arguments on this topic are starting to look tired, desperate and weak.

Jat

What do you expect, he's an apologist and you'll never get a straight answer out of them.

Buddrow_Wilson

I doubt that anyone knows for certain whether she was run over (or whatever) on purpose. Perhaps it was purposeful, but unless there is an outbreak of protesters being crushed, I don't see how you can really feel confident about this. If you go running around in front of operating heavy machinery, something bad can happen. Truthfully, I was quite sickened by the situation, but we really don't know and probably never will. I doubt it was an order sent down from Sharon himself in any event.

Loren's point was that if she had been sitting down (preferably with many others for it to be effective) in a peaceful protest situation, there is no way the machine would have just nonchalantly run her over. It was her "game" of standing and moving around that made it so dangerous. That's not a moral judgement, just common sense.

Farren

Buddrow the kind of lapses you describe around heavy machinery happen in environments where people constantly work with it and have become blase about it.

To make a case that these kind of industrial analogous to an extremely tense and volatile situation, where armed troops are present and everyones keeping a sharp eye on everyone else, is ludicrous in the least.

Its been pointed out to Loren time and again that its the standard practice of other more civilised nations to adopt tactics like moving in with riot gear and literally picking people up and moving them if you really want to enforce imflammatory policies.

Its inconceivable that this would have happened in say England, where "common land" protestors were chaining themselves to trees to be chopped down, or Germany, where squatters refused to leave house to be demolished, and to the best of my knowledge, it never has.

Sorry, weak excuses. And I have to agree with Jat. I have never once, ever, seen Loren concede a point on these fora. So I have little faith that these arguments are actually being considered

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Farren
Loren,

Have you ever watched the everyday occurance of a large trucks carrying materials being offloaded? This happens at millions of industrial sites around the world daily and is in the majority of cases accomplished with a men on the ground waving red flags at people and checking blind spots.

Such caution is routine in everyday civilian situations and you don't think greater caution should be exercised in an explosive operation where there are protestors opposed to what you are doing? Please!

But such people would be very vulnerable to Palestinian fire. What would be trivial otherwise can become a big deal when facing enemy fire.

Also, I notice you fail to respond when it is quite rightly pointed out that you would have to explain why it is practical that the utmost respect and care for Isreali settlers should be exercised, but exercising such care would, to paraphrase your own arguments, "make implimenting government policy impossible and be impractical" where Palestinians and foreign protestors are concerned.

The Israeli settlers weren't going to shoot the soldiers.

Loren Pechtel

Exactly!