Valentine Pontifex

Milford Wolpoff one of the big names of the multiregional continuity hypothesis said the testing which seemed to show that neandertal mDNA was outside of the range human mDNA and that it was equally distant from all human populations said at the time of an early neadertal mDNA study that without comparing it with contemporary non-neadertal populations it did not really show anything. Well that now has been done with this study. Anyone know if Wolpoff and other multiregional proponents are saying about this study?

ps418

. . . and rickets, extreme old age, and a few head wounds here and there

Conchobar

Created as a slave race? Spoken like a traditional christian (from 1860 Alabama.)

The evidence suggests that Homo sapiens sapiens and Neandertal are both branches off of the Homo erectus(and ergaster) tree branch. But 200,000 years ago the DNA differences would not have been as great. The mutational markers increase or add up over time so that by 25,000 BCE, when the last Neandertals died out, they may have been to genetically drifted to mate with Cro-Magnon. Homo Erectus evolved more than 1.5 to 2 million years ago. They left Africa and settle Europe and Asia.

Meanwhile back in Africa, H. erectus evolved into primitive Homo sapiens about 200,000-300,000 years ago. H. sapiens lived in Southwest Africa then 100,000 years ago began the long gradual migration toward the Middle East arriving there about 50,000 years ago. Some of them left the Middle East for south Asia and Australia about 45,000 years ago displacing the older erectus populations.

About 30,000 to 25,000 years ago a group migrated into Europe at time when the Neandertals were in decline. The Ice Age tundra was being replaced by forest and they did not adapt well. The new arivals were more adaptive, perhaps in communicative skills. While the brains were of equal size, the sapiens had proportionately more Frontal lobe. He adapted. He probably isolated remaining groups of Neandertals in undesirable high mountains. There the Neandertal genetic pools were too isolated to maintain a healthy breeding population. Sapiens occupies the lush forests and valleys, sea shores and lake shores and thrived.

There is no evidence that Sapiens interbred with Neandertals. Their common ancestor was Homo erectus. For a while 200,000 to 100,000 BCE three species of humans lived on Earth. Neandertals in Europe, Erectus in Asia and Indonesia, and H. sapiens alongside residual Erectus in Africa.

Far earlier, 2 to 2.5 million years ago three hominid species coexisted in Africa: Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus boiseii, and Homo habilis. And shortly after the last A. africanus died out, there were still three but now they were A. boiseii, Homo habilis, and H. erectus. And for American Fundamentalists who inevitably ask "how come the apes are still around," I answer that evolution is not about a mutation replacing a parent species but just adding a new species. While there were three types of hominids around for 2.5 million years, the Gorillas, Chimps, Bonobos, Orangs, and Gibbons were still doing just fine, having branched off similarly in the preceeding 6-8 million years.

Homo erectus was the most successful human in hominid history in terms of its duration as a species.

None of this supports Magical Creationism. It is the classic saga of evolution.

Conchobar

Nic Tamzek

Yeah, well, I'm psychic. Actually I remembered from your profile that you were at UGA, and heard "coalescent theory" and da brain went "ding!"

Actually, I'm thinking about applying to UGA, it looks like the kind of place where I might be able to combine my current acadmic background in geography with a lot more biology, which I've decided I need more of in my life. The question would then be the geography department, which has some very good biogeographers, or the genetics dept., which has famous people like Avise who look at phylogenies in space. I know of at least one geography PhD from UGA who had a very population-genetics-oriented focus, so some sort of mixing might even be possible.

Whaddya think? Is Athens the nice place it sounds like?

Nic

Mashriqi Mercenary

informative post Conchobar.

In our quest to determine whether anatomically modern humans and neanderthals were co-species or sexually isolated species we have to rely more on anatomical studies than the biological readings.

While latest research has given impetus to the "outof Africa" theory than the parrallel independant evolution of modern humans from various geographically distributed H. Erectus population, it is still undecided whether modern humans who left Africa were able to mate not only with the Neaderthals but also Homo Erectus.
Similarities between Neanderthals, Erectus and sapiens sapien is so close that the former tewo are also known as Archaic Homo sapiens.
It could very well be that humans mated not only with neaderthals but also with later remnants of upper paleolithic Erectus.
In case of Neaderthals one should also keep in mind that it was more or less a european phenomena. It evolved in europe and then migrated to Israel and Iraq and western central Asia now uzbekistan. So the genes of Neaderthal in case of cross breeding would only be found in only some human populations.

In 1998 a huge and significant discovery served as a feul for this controversy when the skeleton of a child from Portugal The lagaoVelhoi boy was discovered. It was dated to some 24,500 years ago and showed intermediate traits between anatomically modern humans and Neanderthals suggesting cross breeding.

This link would serve as a good peice of Information as well

http://www.archaeology.org/magazine....eviews/nathist

Gurdur

Slice it whichever way you like !

Oolon Colluphid

Erm, keyboard butterfingers strikes again!

Spaz

In X2, they said that neanderthals were thought to have died out but new research indicates that they probably interbred with cro-magnons Did they get it wrong or is that right? I don't want my X2 to be dealing lies

Gurdur

They're wrong. All the new research shows that such interbreeding was improbable. What the hell is X2 ?
Does it matter ?

But does he know which side his interbread is buttered ?

Oolon Colluphid

[Has mental flashes of Last Tango in Paris, decides not to say any more ]