Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ronin · 02-07-2003, 01:00 PM

Ronin · 02-07-2003, 01:02 PM

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Except that that is not an option unless you are omnipotent.

Ah...but I'm a cop...so it is my daily option, sans omnipotence.

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If you fail to turn over the boy, you let them suffer. It doesn't matter wheather you try hard for that to not happen, you still let it happen since you had an option that would have prevented it.

Nonsense...there is no such thing as a no-win scenario as long as I draw breath...learned that from Kirk years ago...LOL.

I am not obligated to the cruel extortion of the attackers...their demands are a non-issue with me when it comes down to it.

And the antagonists will only suffer when they directly pose a threat to the lives of others with action...not words.

Even if I perish in the trying...then just 'who' let us all suffer?

You see, my standard is maintained ~ it is not I that will LET billions of people suffer for the action of two people.

PS ~ if you were omnipotent...Would you let billions of people suffer for the actions of two people?

RufusAtticus · 02-07-2003, 01:12 PM

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Originally posted by Ronin
Nonsense...there is no such thing as a no-win scenario as long as I draw breath...learned that from Kirk years ago...LOL.

But you can only answer "yes" or "no" to the question. There is a third option, but many people here, like Kally, have insisted that it is not an option.

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if you were omnipotent...Would you let billions of people suffer for the actions of two people?

Let me start by putting it this way, I would not punish billions of people for the actions of two people because I'd be fair. However, in some instances being fair could cause suffering.

Would I act to stop suffering in the world, by making appropriate divine choices to stop said suffering? It would probably depend on the suffering. Starving children, war, reality television: Yes. Stupidity, heartbreak: No.

I hope you get the idea. If it is the result of having to be fair, I probably would let billions of people suffer for the actions of two.

RufusAtticus · 02-07-2003, 01:18 PM

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Originally posted by ybnormal
The original question was totally generic, in that the only biblical references were embedded in some people's minds. Period!

Sapient offered xians a conundrum which they were unable to resist falling for... had they been capable of answering a simple generic question without deferring to their bible, OR had they been capable of just leaving it alone, Sapient could have easily been proved wrong. Period!

If the question was so generic, why did so many people keep insisting that it refered to Adam and Eve and then say that others were dancing for simply looking beyond Genesis?

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Sapient offered xians a conundrum which they were unable to resist falling for... had they been capable of answering a simple generic question without deferring to their bible, OR had they been capable of just leaving it alone, Sapient could have easily been proved wrong. Period!

Show me where Wildernesse quoted from the Bible. What's that? You can't. Well then stop complaining.

Ronin · 02-07-2003, 01:21 PM

Read the additions I have made while you posted...it may clear things up for you.

PS ~ you are asserting that because I did not meet some absurd demands by an analogous band of outlaws not in the OP that the resulting suffering falls upon my shoulders...and to that I simply disagree.

I am not culpable for any suffering rendered in that scenario by defending all of the innocent...rather the ring leader of your posited Klan 'let' the suffering occur.

Surely, this is clear to you.

Ronin · 02-07-2003, 01:24 PM

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I hope you get the idea. If it is the result of having to be fair, I probably would let billions of people suffer for the actions of two.

Then, your concept of omnipotence is GROSSLY underachieving!!

hezekiah jones · 02-07-2003, 01:30 PM

Will someone please explain to Radorth that atheists don't believe in "God"? Maybe wait until he sobers up first.

RufusAtticus · 02-07-2003, 01:30 PM

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Originally posted by Ronin
you are asserting that because I did not meet some absurd demands by an analogous band of outlaws not in the OP that the resulting suffering falls upon my shoulders...and to that I simply disagree.

You had the option to prevent suffering of the masses, let the kid go to the outlaws. However, you have a sense of justice and fairness and are willing to let suffering happen because to take the easy road is against your moral code.

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I am not culpable for any suffering rendered in that scenario by defending all of the innocent...rather the ring leader of your posited Klan 'let' the suffering occur.

Many people are responsible--the kid, the family, the klan--but only you are given the chance to choose between the many and the individual.

RufusAtticus · 02-07-2003, 01:32 PM

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Originally posted by Ronin
Then, your concept of omnipotence is GROSSLY underachieving!!

No, I just don't have a concept of omnibenevolence. Humans are way too crazy for one to be both omnibenevolent and always fair.

Mad Kally · 02-07-2003, 02:02 PM

Thank you for pointing out my incorrect word usage. The question should have been asked like this;

Would you allow millions of wives to be beaten because of the actions of one woman?

Yes.
No.
I might, I might not.

How is this anymore off track than the little boy and his family? Almost every xian here has avoided the original question with a bunch of dancing around the issue without answering an extremely simple question? The is no other answer but NO! But then of course we must wonder how people like Hitler and/or the KKK would have answered.

Rufus, you brought up the wife beating.

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Rufus:
ybnormal,

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes or No. Stop dancing around the question.

View Poll Results: Would you let billions of people suffer for the actions of two people?
Yes	7	13.73%
No	36	70.59%
I might, I might not	8	15.69%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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02-07-2003, 01:00 PM	#161
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	<Edit ~ strange fluctuation in the force>

02-07-2003, 01:21 PM	#165
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	Read the additions I have made while you posted...it may clear things up for you. PS ~ you are asserting that because I did not meet some absurd demands by an analogous band of outlaws not in the OP that the resulting suffering falls upon my shoulders...and to that I simply disagree. I am not culpable for any suffering rendered in that scenario by defending all of the innocent...rather the ring leader of your posited Klan 'let' the suffering occur. Surely, this is clear to you.

02-07-2003, 01:30 PM	#167
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Will someone please explain to Radorth that atheists don't believe in "God"? Maybe wait until he sobers up first.

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