Amaranth

Actually, my body raises my heartbeat in accoradance with a number of variable factors, such as emotional state, necessity of my cells for blood, et cetera. I have no active choice in this matter. I can institute certain things to modify the veriables, which will then change my heart rate, but this is not the same thing. Example: I cannot choose if my dog will come when I want. However, if I yank his leash, call his name, drop a steak at my feet, or some other action, he will most likely come. My will still has no direct control over the dog.

The idea to stop urinating is limited at best - Eventually, my body will win that argument, against my will. Try it out - See how many weeks you can go before your body commits to the act without consulting your will. I garuntee the answer will be zero. Your will is still limited, and thus not "free".

A Yogi who stopped his heart would be in a condition known as cardiac arrest. A condition that results in immediate loss of conciousness. This is quickly followed by brain damage within the next four to six minutes. This, along with floating and manifesting material things are not only extrodinary claims, but they are also percievable by anyone around said Yogi; or in the case of causing yourself cardiac arrest on demand, easy enough to percieve with an EKG.

As self-inflicted cardiac arrest is the only one really related to the subject at hand, I'd sincerely like to see references to the studies of Yogis who can declare "I will stop my heart now", and then, at their will, do so. However, it would also be interesting to see the studies of Yogis who can float and manifest material objects as well, although another thread would probably be best for such.

False analogy. I've seen people on bicycles. I saw it many times in the years before I ever rode one myself. The concept of balancing on two wheels seems as logical as balancing on a fallen log. I've never seen anyone float or manifest material things, save David Copperfield and similar stage magicians, which I sincely hope we can all agree is just trickery and "illusion". Floating or manifesting material objects are both extremely removed from any experience or ability I've seen in any human being.

Amaranth

Jamie_L

And back to the viscious Free Will circle:

If God gives us adequate self control and spirit control, then we have no free will? So, in order to give us free will, God must make us without adequate self control and spirit control? I.E., God makes us morally inferior, then expects us not to be morally inferior? But I've argued about this paradox in other threads. So...

Free will and limitations:

God already limits our free will with respect to good and evil.

If we were to have unrestricted free will, the laws of physics would not limit our ability to do good and evil.

We would be able to cause suffering or eliminate it merely with will alone. Clearly, this is not the case. I cannot make my daughter's asthma go away by snapping my fingers.

So, God already limits our good-evil Free Will. Yet, the limits in place seem to create a situation in which free choice of a few can limit the free choice of many very easily. If God was concerned about everyone's free choice, he could certainly have contructed the limits differently.

It seems that the evidence suggests that if God is real, he really isn't all that concerned with the free will of humanity as a whole.

Jamie