K

woodchuck:

When you choose to obey God, are you getting the message DIRECTLY from Him, or is it possibly from someone who thinks they have everything figured out and wants to tell you how to live? If you are getting it directly from God, you're doing much better than theists who just get their religious ideas from other theists and from books written by other theists.

woodchuck

Hey K, you said:
I won't say I have not done that, but I will say I have not always done that. Unfortuantley, many people join the church not because they fall in love with God, but because they fall in love with a charismatic teacher, or some really good preacher that seems to have all the right answers. These people lose all "faith" once that teacher leaves- and what's left is what they really had between them and God, nothing. Some christians read book after book by certain authors and rely on the author more than the bible. And some rely on the Bible more than they do on their relationship. There are bible scholars and theological professers who, as far as Ive ever seen, have never even met Christ. I have been guilty of this, and its just empty religion when all your doing is following rules and studying doctrines and missing out on the beautiful relationship with Christ that is the entire point of salvation.

People think that when you become a christian you give up everything you like and be good or else God sends you to hell. Thats what I always thought, until the day I broke down and met Christ, and suddenly the things I thought I loved, I began to hate, and then I was at war with the habits I had attained. I did not suddenly have the perfect will, but I have known from that day 6 years ago that exactly what I want is to stay as close to God as I can, because He has proven to me that there is no better way in life. So thats where Im at and Im sorry if you think Im closed minded, fact is I am closed minded to the extent that Im not going to allow any crap get in the way of the incredible life Ive found. An open mind should have the same purpose as an open mouth, to close down on something solid. A fully open mind tends to end up like a street drain, taking in every bit of filth that comes its way. Some guy said that, and i agree by golly.

I hope that made sense.
-eef

galiel

This makes me wonder about another paradoxical aspect of monotheistic faith:

If you converse directly with the one God, even occasionally, why do you need an intermediary priesthood or a book to interpret God's words?

And, if you only receive God's word through a priesthood or a book and never directly, why do you believe their assertions that they accurately transmit the word of God--particularly when there are so many competing priesthoods and so many competing holy books that claim to do so, yet provide different versions of God's word?

woodchuck

Why not give answering that one a shot.. what the heck...

I must make it clear that this is a personal answer and it is from my point of view as a christian, I'm not debating free will right now, I'm simply giving an hinest answer to galiel's question, so that maybe it will make a little bit of sense why it is neccesarry to have direct contact with God, and to have a Bible, and to have a Church.

We see that men like to argue what God tells them. It has been the biggest problem with the church from the first time someone decided to make their own interpretation of the scriptures, or has made a claim that God gave them this exclusive revelation that all must obey...

The bible is not to be a substitute for God, it is a referance and a tool for "teaching rebuking corecting and training" as it says in second Timothy- Since God knows that man can easily fool himself into thinking he has just had God tell him to do somehting, God has left us with a guide. Does my experience of who God is line up with His word? if not, I should wonder if it is my emotions or my mind, is it self deception, or perhaps am I believing what some man has told me about God?

The scriptures also show us the history of God- it answers alot of questions. As an example, many ask why God doesn't just speak from the clouds and do something incredible? The Old testament proves that that doesn't work.

Of course I'm not claiming that we haven't totally misused the bible. I myself am guilty of misusuing it to my advantage at times- but that was my foolishness, not God's. I blame the people who have misused the bible for the many seperations in the church, while I'm sure many of you will point the finger at God.

God wants a relationship with us, but He also wants to protect us from our hyperimaginative emotions that we will often think is God. ALso, the bible warns of many false prophets and the antichrist- when one of these shows up we can compare him to what the bible teaches, and expose him.

Anyway- at least for me, I see the connection. It is neccessary for us to have both the Bible and God. As for the priesthood- I don't believe that there should be church rulers who have heavenly authority to interpret scripture, but i do believe that there are wise men who can help me as a younger man in my life as a christian. And church should be a place where people who have a mutual friend in Christ gather together for worship, fellowship, and ministry. Not to act like they are any more holy than anyone else on earth as some do. That's purely stupid.

God knows that because we are still in sin we can't have a perfect relationship with Him on this earth, we need to be lead to Him constantly by mentoring and by His Word. In heaven the Bible will not be needed, nor will teaching- and it will be a pure relationship with God (which to you may sound like not so much fun but to me is uncomprehendably wonderful and exciting).

I hope that made sense, thanks for asking- it made me think. (something us christians don't do very often)
-eef

K

woodchuck:

I don't think you'll find many atheists pointing their fingers at God. Atheists generally don't believe in a God to point their fingers at.

Since even you admit that these hyperimaginative emotions exist, can you see why I believe that all religious experiences are just the same emotions?

woodchuck

K:
Totally, I think thats an intelligent conclusion. The only reason I believe that there's a difference and that God can directly communicate with individuals is because he has with me, and there's things in my life that have happened that I know that I alone never would have made the choice to do, or perhaps even considered.

I'm not proposing these things as evidence for God for you, I'm just stating my point of view and why I believe.
-eef