Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chaos Amoeba · 03-01-2002, 11:13 AM

You guys are right, this situation stinks.

I always thought that if something like this happened it would be coming from a teacher that I didn't like and would have no problem reporting. Unfortunately, I really do like this teacher. She's a nice woman and is usually good at presenting the material to us in class. While I don't like what she did, I definately don't want to get her fired. I couldn't live with that on my conscience.

I think I'm going to leave an anonymous letter for my school principal telling him about the situation and expressing my feelings about why such a debate shouldn't be happening in class. If I just mention some of the things on this thread I think I have a pretty good chance of having the debate cancelled. And just in case, I'll read Talk Origins and have my strategy planned out.

I'm sorry if you wanted me to do more about this, but again, I really don't want to get anybody into too much trouble. It was a stinky situation from the beginning, and it still stinks, but I guess I don't have what it takes to do more about it. I'm disappointed in myself too.

03-01-2002, 11:33 AM

Chaos Amoeba:

I don't really like the anonymous route: it's sneaky and you could in any case get her fired.

If you feel you usually have a good relationship with this teacher, I think you should ask to speak to her in private. When the two of you are together, you can ask her why she has set up this debate. Is it because she is a creationist. If she says "yes", you can point out that she is acting unconstitutionally by bringing religion into science lessons. If she says "no", you can point out that she is nonetheless following the creationist agenda and in doing so violating the separation of church and state.

If she believes that you are ready to report her if necessary, she will probably back down. If she still refuses, then you should hold your head up and go to the principal.

Kevin Dorner · 03-01-2002, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos Amoeba:
<strong>... but I guess I don't have what it takes to do more about it. I'm disappointed in myself too.</strong>

Don't be... you're doing fine. There are always shades of grey, and things like this are never easy (life is not a movie.) In this case, you happen to like the teacher. Many other students probably do as well. The likely route is that she would be informed privately why what she did was not the proper course of action for a teacher and that will be the end of it. They aren't likely to get rid of a well-liked teacher for one deviation like this.

In the other case I mentioned, the chem. teacher roundly criticized evolution, pushed YEC, then invited a young-earth creationist to preach to the class (yes, it's preaching... YEC is a religious idea and has been upheld as such.) Even after this, he wasn't fired. He resigned on his own just because he wanted the disciplinary report out of his file and this request was refused.

If you let your principal/superintendent know that you like this teacher and that she presented the material well, and that she hasn't done anything else questionable, this will only help her.

[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

Asha'man · 03-01-2002, 01:22 PM

I hate to say it, but I don't like the idea of just getting the teacher to back down on the debate. This teacher may back down this time, for the one class that Chaos Amoeba is in, but she will be free to pull this same stunt next year with a different set of students. She needs to clearly understand that her action is both wrong and illegal. At the minimum, she needs to acknowledge that fact to the class, as part of a public apology.

The faculty of the school must be informed. Their memory is longer that the ever-changing flow of students, and will carry over into the following years.

Dr.GH · 03-03-2002, 11:53 AM

Chaos Amoeba,

Post the names of; the teacher, your principal, and the address of your school. Or, send me a personal message through the profile page.

I will write a letter to the principal explaining that A) a student at the school asked that we give advice about a proposed classroom debate, B) that apparently the teacher had prejudiced the issues by claiming that "Hey, you know all that stuff that I taught you about evolution? Its all false! I only taught it to you because the state requires it!", C)not only was this poor educationally, but it was in clear violation of several Federal Courts, including the Supreme Court of the United States, D) the faculty member should be informed by the principal that this is inappropriate in a public school and could have serious consequences.

I will sign it as

Dr. G. S. Hurd
Director of Education
Orance County Natural History Museum

etc.. which is who I am.

My experience in teaching tells me that the principal will have a word with the teacher, and probably mention this to the faculty at large. It will put an end to the matter without any massive problem.

Gary

gravitybow · 03-04-2002, 07:35 AM

Chaos Amoeba:

I'm assuming that the debate is still going forward tomorrow. Record it any way you can and let us know how it goes.

Good Luck!

gravitybow · 03-08-2002, 10:24 AM

Now it's Friday.
How did the debate go? Anything interesting, or was it a dud?

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03-01-2002, 11:13 AM	#31
Chaos Amoeba Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New York, USA Posts: 7	You guys are right, this situation stinks. I always thought that if something like this happened it would be coming from a teacher that I didn't like and would have no problem reporting. Unfortunately, I really do like this teacher. She's a nice woman and is usually good at presenting the material to us in class. While I don't like what she did, I definately don't want to get her fired. I couldn't live with that on my conscience. I think I'm going to leave an anonymous letter for my school principal telling him about the situation and expressing my feelings about why such a debate shouldn't be happening in class. If I just mention some of the things on this thread I think I have a pretty good chance of having the debate cancelled. And just in case, I'll read Talk Origins and have my strategy planned out. I'm sorry if you wanted me to do more about this, but again, I really don't want to get anybody into too much trouble. It was a stinky situation from the beginning, and it still stinks, but I guess I don't have what it takes to do more about it. I'm disappointed in myself too.

03-01-2002, 11:33 AM	#32
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Chaos Amoeba: I don't really like the anonymous route: it's sneaky and you could in any case get her fired. If you feel you usually have a good relationship with this teacher, I think you should ask to speak to her in private. When the two of you are together, you can ask her why she has set up this debate. Is it because she is a creationist. If she says "yes", you can point out that she is acting unconstitutionally by bringing religion into science lessons. If she says "no", you can point out that she is nonetheless following the creationist agenda and in doing so violating the separation of church and state. If she believes that you are ready to report her if necessary, she will probably back down. If she still refuses, then you should hold your head up and go to the principal.

03-01-2002, 01:22 PM	#34
Asha'man Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: southeast Posts: 2,526	I hate to say it, but I don't like the idea of just getting the teacher to back down on the debate. This teacher may back down this time, for the one class that Chaos Amoeba is in, but she will be free to pull this same stunt next year with a different set of students. She needs to clearly understand that her action is both wrong and illegal. At the minimum, she needs to acknowledge that fact to the class, as part of a public apology. The faculty of the school must be informed. Their memory is longer that the ever-changing flow of students, and will carry over into the following years.

03-03-2002, 11:53 AM	#35
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	Chaos Amoeba, Post the names of; the teacher, your principal, and the address of your school. Or, send me a personal message through the profile page. I will write a letter to the principal explaining that A) a student at the school asked that we give advice about a proposed classroom debate, B) that apparently the teacher had prejudiced the issues by claiming that "Hey, you know all that stuff that I taught you about evolution? Its all false! I only taught it to you because the state requires it!", C)not only was this poor educationally, but it was in clear violation of several Federal Courts, including the Supreme Court of the United States, D) the faculty member should be informed by the principal that this is inappropriate in a public school and could have serious consequences. I will sign it as Dr. G. S. Hurd Director of Education Orance County Natural History Museum etc.. which is who I am. My experience in teaching tells me that the principal will have a word with the teacher, and probably mention this to the faculty at large. It will put an end to the matter without any massive problem. Gary

03-04-2002, 07:35 AM	#36
gravitybow Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington, NC Posts: 1,696	Chaos Amoeba: I'm assuming that the debate is still going forward tomorrow. Record it any way you can and let us know how it goes. Good Luck!

03-08-2002, 10:24 AM	#37
gravitybow Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington, NC Posts: 1,696	Now it's Friday. How did the debate go? Anything interesting, or was it a dud?

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