Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Plump-DJ · 08-28-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

What strange topic drift -- to the viewpoint that the external world is nothing but a Matrix-like hallucination.

Yes i suppose it is. I'm not saying it's not real, i'm saying that the real deal might just be a few rungs further down the metahphysical ladder.

I mean if you look at QM for example, it paints a completely different picture of the universe to the one's our brains paint. We don't see the universe the "QM" way. That's an interesting thought when you add it to this "problem of dualism" because it makes you wonder if mind or spirit or some other such thing is the real 'stuff' of existence and matter is just an abstraction, an unjustified metaphysical assumption as Berekely argued.

Infinity Lover · 08-29-2002, 12:12 PM

The only thing you'll ever experience is your brain's interpretation of reality. But reality still needs to be there for your brain to interpret. You can fool a brain into believing stuff, because we can 'assume'. Can you fool a camera?

As for my 2cts on the soul and mind.

Our mind's our ability to conclude we have one.
Our soul's our tendancy to believe we have one.

Ultimately all that exist is bodies (particles, objects, people, whatever) and the behaviour (movement) of bodies. Guess that makes kinetic energy the primary energyform, all others are based on.

How's that for a shift of topic?

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]

crocodile deathroll · 08-29-2002, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plump-DJ:


Yes i suppose it is. I'm not saying it's not real, i'm saying that the real deal might just be a few rungs further down the metahphysical ladder.

I mean if you look at QM for example, it paints a completely different picture of the universe to the one's our brains paint. We don't see the universe the "QM" way. That's an interesting thought when you add it to this "problem of dualism" because it makes you wonder if mind or spirit or some other such thing is the real 'stuff' of existence and matter is just an abstraction, an unjustified metaphysical assumption as Berekely argued.

Our brains have surely gotten in wrong in the past, like for example the "brain" concluded for thousands of years the Earth was flat merely because it looked that way

.

Feather · 08-29-2002, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RogerLeeCooke:


OK, I won't argue with you. But just to get it in writing..., the answer to that argument is that saying the mind reflects brain damage in this way is tantamount to saying the mind is an effect of brain activity. It still gives no grounds for supposing the mind can exist without the brain.

I don't agree with mind/body dualism either (cf the "Free Will is Bunk" thread). But I disagree with your reason for disagreement.

I like to use a physics analogy (as usual) for this. Take an electron and a proton. Normally, ceterus paribus, they will accelerate toward one another freely. Now place a bundle of protons with the original one. They accelerate toward each other at an even greater rate. Now stick a few electrons in orbit around the bundle (i.e. form an atom). The bundle and the external electron accelerate toward each other at a lesser rate, because the orbiting electrons screen the proton bundle from the external electron.

Just so with the "dualism interactionists." Alzheimer's Disease merely "screens" the mind from the body.

Infinity Lover · 08-29-2002, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feather:


I don't agree with mind/body dualism either (cf the "Free Will is Bunk" thread). But I disagree with your reason for disagreement.

I like to use a physics analogy (as usual) for this. Take an electron and a proton. Normally, ceterus paribus, they will accelerate toward one another freely. Now place a bundle of protons with the original one. They accelerate toward each other at an even greater rate. Now stick a few electrons in orbit around the bundle (i.e. form an atom). The bundle and the external electron accelerate toward each other at a lesser rate, because the orbiting electrons screen the proton bundle from the external electron.

Just so with the "dualism interactionists." Alzheimer's Disease merely "screens" the mind from the body.

Alzheimer's is a DEGENERATIVE brain decease. It doesn't ADD stuff!

08-29-2002, 12:12 PM	#22
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	The only thing you'll ever experience is your brain's interpretation of reality. But reality still needs to be there for your brain to interpret. You can fool a brain into believing stuff, because we can 'assume'. Can you fool a camera? As for my 2cts on the soul and mind. Our mind's our ability to conclude we have one. Our soul's our tendancy to believe we have one. Ultimately all that exist is bodies (particles, objects, people, whatever) and the behaviour (movement) of bodies. Guess that makes kinetic energy the primary energyform, all others are based on. How's that for a shift of topic? [ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]</p>

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