Goliath

bah...deleted because continuing a discussion over something as pointless as evidence for the supernatural claim of Jesus' existence is a waste of time, and because if Metacrock had anything that resembled a proof of Jesus' existence, he would've presented it long before now.

Metacrock

Meta => All but the stuff on Peter and Paul in 1Clement is legond and unreliable. I don't put any stock in any of them, except I do think Thomas may have gone to Inida. That's because B.H. Streeter thought so. He shows that the trade route to India when right through Nazareth and that is named in some apochraphal Thomas source, I think the ACTS of Thomas.


Be that as it may, I have a low degree of confidence in all the others. STreeter, though he was a fine shcolar, had a biased motive for claiming Thoams went to Inida.

You can find all those legonds on New Advent by looking under the indiviudal Aposltes. That quote above was incidental. I wasn't arguing that, it just happened to be in there with some othe cut and paste stuff. sorry. I mean I was arguing why die for a lie, but the only example I would defend would be Peter. IF it was a lie Peter would know.


That's all there is is those legonds.

Metacrock

It says he came in the flesh! that totally blows Doherty out of the water, its the defeat of everything Doherty says.

I am not arguing for the Resurrection. I believe in it, but it's a tenet of faith, not an apologetical ploy. I couldn't care less about provig it. I'm only concerned with proving that Jesus was a real guy, and I think I've done that.

Thomas was a sayings source, not a narrative, that may be why it doesn' thave the crucifiction or res. It's his sayings. It does have sayings, however, that imply that he will die for everyone.

Metacrock

I don't believe Luke was wrong about the census. I think Ramasy had the answer, it was on going. It wasn't just one year, it was in effect for over 100 years.

Metacrock

OK so historical existence is supernatural?

do you exist?

doesnt' that prove the supernatural?

so itsn't that proof?

Goliath

Metacrock,

This is a function of what person/thing you are asking about.

Yes.

Of course not! I'm not claiming to be a supernatural entity!

If that's what you think proof is, then I'd advise sticking to your theology, and having nothing to do with mathematics.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Metacrock

More amazing analysis from the secular web. From Goliath we learn that anyone who has historical existence is supernatural. Now from you we learn that we have to believe everything we read.

can you not read between lines? Is that concept just foreign to you? Obviously some of the things they said about him were propaganda. But they didnt' say he didn't exist. If they really wanted to kill his following, why didn't they just say "they made him up?" They acted like the was real becasue they knew he was and they couldn't deny that part. But they had to explain away his miracles so they said he wored magic.

I'm explaining this to you?

Metacrock

What is "supernatural?" What do you think that word means?



Can you say X has properties y and z? If X exists X must have property y, but not necessarily property z

so X implies y but may or may not imply z.

Now;

If X then z, does that follow?


That's what you are saying. from my premise X => Y but either/or z. you infur X = z. that doesn't follow.


that would be a question in the equasion. Can we not hold open questions about properties of things?

Is "supernatural" a property that a thing has like it has color or weight?

Roland

Metacrock -

You really haven't "proven" any such thing. One could say that about a fictional character as easily as one could say that about a real-life one (more easily, in fact, since it's easier to create godmen on paper than it is to conjure up the real thing).

In fact, Euripedes DOES say that about Dionysus in his 5th Century B.C. play, "The Baccae."

Goliath

An entity is supernatural if it does not exist in the natural universe (ie what we can observe with our five senses).

X has properties y and z. What do I win?

Oh yes, and WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

I have no idea what you think mathematics is, but it is NOT what you seem to think it is. Please, stick with your "I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I SAID SO!" brand of theology.

Sincerely,

Goliath