Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tronvillain · 08-19-2003, 01:00 PM

godfry n. glad:

Quote:

And, will most likely be gay. Tough luck, ladies.

You know, a girl actually asked me if I was gay a few weeks ago? Her suspicions were apparently based on me being in shape, well dressed and groomed, and being willing and able to dance. Bizarre. I don't know about the confidence though: it comes and it goes. *chuckle*

cheetah · 08-19-2003, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain
cheetah:

Ah, but I do not think that it is at all true that men are uninterested in conversation, even at a bar or club.

Ah, well, thank goodness. I think a lot of us women were getting pretty depressed here. I have also always believed that to be true. And since that is the case, I think it is fine for people to get involved in those conversations without admitting to themselves that it is solely for sex and feel like they have to take total responsibility for the interaction from then on. For the record, I think it behooves both the man and the woman to have it made clear early on that one or the other is unavailable, as you're right, I wouldn't want to talk to a guy who was only interested in getting in my pants (although interest in that AND the conversation is ok) and I wouldn't want to be eventually harrassed. The point is, it is not only about wasting the guy's time, and it is not only about the woman's "responsibility" to tell him. He's playing a game he'll have to deal with the results of. If the woman is generous or sees that it will be a benefit to her, she can make the case known, but if she doesn't, it is certainly not as if she has done something immoral!

Hedwig · 08-19-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheetah
I will admit that the "asking out-er" is walking a fine line between being too aggressive and not being clear enough. But, I can tell you that she *might* not have known. It wasn't until this thread that I found out that EVERY conversation I have with a male is intended to lead to sex or a date. Believe me, this is news to a lot of us...

No kidding. I honestly didn't know.

Ovazor · 08-19-2003, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheetah
It wasn't until this thread that I found out that EVERY conversation I have with a male is intended to lead to sex or a date. Believe me, this is news to a lot of us...

Including me, and I am a male.

Beetle · 08-19-2003, 02:40 PM

Fortunately for all of us, there was an exchange on this very subject recently at the source of all male wisdom, ESPN ("SG" stands for SportsGuy)

Quote:

Q: What would be the best sports equivalent to that moment when you're talking to an attractive woman who you think you're hitting it off with, and she casually mentions her boyfriend mid-sentence, and you have to keep the conversation moving without showing disappointment? -- Jarrett Fischer, Virginia Beach, Va.

SG: Losing a no-hitter. No question. You're cruising along, all your pitches are working, you're trying not to get ahead of yourself, you're taking it one batter at a time, the crowd's getting behind you ... and then she casually throws out the boyfriend, like a piping-hot stake in the heart. And you have to regroup mentally, finish the conversation, and pretend that you're not even remotely rattled. Even though you're reeling inside.

(Doesn't that sound just like losing a no-hitter? And why do women relish doing that to us so much? It's like they teach a class for this stuff somewhere.)

Doesn't that clear everything up?

Ojuice5001 · 08-19-2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheetah
I will admit that the "asking out-er" is walking a fine line between being too aggressive and not being clear enough. But, I can tell you that she *might* not have known. It wasn't until this thread that I found out that EVERY conversation I have with a male is intended to lead to sex or a date. Believe me, this is news to a lot of us...

Well, that's only true if the guy is unattached. With an unattached guy, any interaction with a dateable woman is colored by our chances of sex or a date. I mean, you could ask us for the time of day, and we'd be thinking, "Okay, do I have a better chance of hooking up if I tell her the exact time, or if I round it off to the nearest five minutes?"

But that's in the background. In the foreground, we're just thinking about the same interesting/bland/practical/ego-enhancing stuff that we are saying out loud. Don't worry about it. As long something worthwhile comes out of a social interaction (such as sharing a number of interesting thoughts, or enjoying each other's company, etc.), I consider it a success.

BDS · 08-19-2003, 03:40 PM

I haven't read every post in the thread, Cheetah, but the men here are misleading you. You are under no obligation of either honesty, charity, or honor to mention your marital status early in a conversation at a bar. Why would you be? If men waste their time talking to you, tough tooties to them.

Personally, I assume all women are unavailable to me, until proven otherwise. Then it comes as a pleasant surprise. For a man you have just met to assume that you ARE available (whether or not you have a husband or boyfriend) is the height of presumption and arrogance. You need have no qualms about wasting such a buffoon's time. He deserves it.

NHGH · 08-19-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bible Humper
Shadowy Man, something I want to add to the advice the ladies are giving you here...

When you are opening a woman in a venue like a book store, you should strike up a conversation in as neutral a way as possible at first as a RULE OF THUMB. You wait until the initial discomfort of interacting with a total stranger wears off before FULLY interacting. What you do is open in a way that she has no clue if you are trying to interact with her or are just a talkative guy with something to say and she is the one who happened to be there to hear it.

Like if you hop onto the subway and you see a good target sitting somewhere, you could walk over and sit somewhere close and just open your newspaper. Then you can open with something interesting in there in a way like you are just saying out loud what you're thinking. "Hrumph, there's a pet psychic coming to Toronto. He says that he can read your animal's aura!?" She is probably not going to open up totally yet, so wait for whatever short response she gives.... "Yeah, but I don't know about this stuff, do you think this is real or what?" Blah blah blah.

If she seems like a cold fish, don't give up! Just continue probing for something that will encourage her to respond. People find it very difficult to be outright rude with you if you are doing this right. Make sure you aren't coming across as desperate for rapport!

Most women are real fascinated by the paranormal, destiny, etc so this kind of stuff has a good chance of getting her talking. Make sure you wait until she opens up before turning your body completely towards her, establishing consistent eye contact, and giving her all your attention. Remember, she shouldn't be thinking "This guy wanted to talk to me, and used this topic to get me talking", but instead "He made a remark about that topic and we just started conversing".

Learn the Duchenne smile. If you're nervous interacting with her and try to smile to convey warmth, it is going to give the impression of insincerity unless you do it right. You have to contract the muscles around your eyes to fake a genuine smile well enough that she doesn't intuitively know it was forced.

Learn how to fluff talk. Practice asking questions that can't be answered with a single word, but instead require her to think about what she is saying and elaborate on. Try to lead any topics regarding what she likes or is interested in towards feelings type talk. Like if you find the girl in your example at the book store browsing mysteries, ask her what it is about mysteries that she likes, and then after she's done talking about that, ask her how she feels when she finishes a brilliant new mystery by her favourite author. Take the lead and follow any tangents her responses offer, and get her talking all about this subject she loves so much

Never talk about crap like work, politics, atheism, George Bush, or all the rest of that garbage.

By the time you open them up and have some good interaction going, you're well on your way. Gotta go, see y'all later.

As in many other things, the key to success here is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made, right?

On a more serious note, is anyone else here just sort of put off by this sort of thing? It strikes me as creepy and manipulative. I hope this advice wasn't intended seriously.

Beetle · 08-19-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BDS
Personally, I assume all women are unavailable to me, until proven otherwise. Then it comes as a pleasant surprise. For a man you have just met to assume that you ARE available (whether or not you have a husband or boyfriend) is the height of presumption and arrogance.

Except that she was at a frickin' bar on a Saturday night!

Seriously, I'm not any sort of bar-creature, and certainly not any sort of a womanizer, but I think the underlying assumptions of meeting a person in a bar on a weekend differ from just about any other place.

There's been some talk that people are learning that every conversation with a guy means the guy is looking for sex. Not so. But at "Dooley's Whiskey Joint" on a weekend? Probably.

cheetah · 08-19-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beetle
Except that she was at a frickin' bar on a Saturday night!

Seriously, I'm not any sort of bar-creature, and certainly not any sort of a womanizer, but I think the underlying assumptions of meeting a person in a bar on a weekend differ from just about any other place.

There's been some talk that people are learning that every conversation with a guy means the guy is looking for sex. Not so. But at "Dooley's Whiskey Joint" on a weekend? Probably.

Here is a list of reasons a woman might be at a bar/club on a Saturday night, other than because she is available and/or wants to be picked up:

To dance
To hang out with a group of girlfriends
To hang out with guy friends
To get drunk and feel fuuuuunnnnnnnyyyy
To explore a new location in the city
To explore a location in a city she's visiting
To meet people that like the same music she does
To celebrate something
To relax
To find someone off whom to purchase drugs
To listen to her friend who is the DJ/in the band for the night
To help out a friend who is trying to get over a hard time
For a bachelorette party
To do SOMETHING on a Saturday night outside the house (very few other places are open or remotely safe at 2am)
To get some unhealthy, expensive food
To get decorating ideas (I know this sounds ridiculous, but I put it because the one I was actually at on Sat was awesome and I really wanted their lamps...also their incense was great)
To meet people

And about a millions others

So, there may be different reasons to be at a bar or club than for other places, but they are not slanted toward only that for women, and it should not be assumed!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-19-2003, 03:40 PM	#117
BDS Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR, USA Posts: 3,187	I haven't read every post in the thread, Cheetah, but the men here are misleading you. You are under no obligation of either honesty, charity, or honor to mention your marital status early in a conversation at a bar. Why would you be? If men waste their time talking to you, tough tooties to them. Personally, I assume all women are unavailable to me, until proven otherwise. Then it comes as a pleasant surprise. For a man you have just met to assume that you ARE available (whether or not you have a husband or boyfriend) is the height of presumption and arrogance. You need have no qualms about wasting such a buffoon's time. He deserves it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.