atrahasis

I thought this about Our infinite universe........

Im quoting theli coz he was last to respond!!!

Theli,
In the "In the/this "keyboard" of life, it is sometimes necessary to press the Escapekey

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: Black Moses ]</p>

Liquidrage

Theli, please check your private messages

Theli

I posted the message because I found your criticism unproductive. It mostly consisted of emotional outbursts.
As you were clearly getting angry, I thought that it was a good idea that you ended your reply.

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]</p>

Liquidrage

Ah. Well that makes sense. In a weird way. Though you chimmed in about 4 days late and after I had already made additional posts.

My replies weren't really emotional.
They were harsh in a sense. But that was because of the original claim. Which wasn't "I think it might..." or "I believe it to be...".
It was "I thought it would be best just to state the obvious reasons why the universe cannot be considered finite".

If this was a xian posting "obvious" reasons why "god must be true" would anyone have been more kind?
The claim was absurd and not backed up at all.

Instead of claiming my reasons as "emotional outburts" how about pointing out where they are wrong.

Theli

Liquidrage...

Isn't this kind of a dumb question?
I mean, if I observed your claims to be emotional outbursts (wich i did) it wouldn't help anyone if I attacked* your "counter-argument" (as you see them), as that would put me in a position of being attacked* with emotional outbursts myself.

*When I use the word "attack" I don't mean in a violent/malevolent sense.

I would just prolong a type of discussion that I wanted to end.
It backfired on me though, since you started to send me private messages.

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]</p>

Liquidrage

You had no reason to post.

You bought a dead topic back up and posted days after I had last posted.
What was I supposed to do? Just ingore you obviously rude "shut up Liquidrage" post that came from left field?

I tried to take this to only private discussions but you would have none of it.
So this post is a big "fuck you Theli".

You keep posting rude shit to me and I reply in private to try and keep this kind of crap out of the public eye. But you can't just reply in private you need to keep using a public thread to justify your rude posting in a topic that was already dead.

In closing, it was a physics discussion. Not one on netiquitte. The reason why I was terse was listed above.
If you really were the moral police you would have done a little better then your obvious rude posts.
And if you really had any understanding of the topic you never would have posted at all.

- Liquidrage
Done posting in this thread. And this thread was done long ago.

Mr. Sammi

I like davidm's quotation of Sten Odenwald.

If the universe was infinite, it has no boundary in space, so it is not expanding into anything.

However, if the universe was finite then...it is not expanding into anything "space-like".

On one hand we have the infinite universe with infinite spatial features which will let the rest of the universe (minus space) expand. On the other hand the finite universe cannot be expanding into anything space-like.

Three things to note here, the first concerning the infinite universe was absorbed into infinite space. davidm's expert has shuffled the choices within an infinite universe to infinite space. Well done, but quite inadequate. The second thing to note is the introduction of "an other", under the conditions of a finite universe, the NOT(space-like) element, quite mysterious. The third point to note here is davidm's expert opinion, Sten the NASA guy, which was choosen to show some "point", has not withstood NON-EXPERT hard thinking.

I think davidm should review his choices of experts before introducing their ideas here in order to garner support. Experts can also have their ideas revieved.

Rainbow Walking, in my mind, has some reasonable ideas in regards to the infinitude of our universe. Hyper-Space as it has been posited could possibly mean NOT within our current scope of understanding natural attributes of the universe.

The universe has not been conquered. We are not in a class room, though, I hope this is a little electronic room with class. More soon.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

davidm

Mr. Sammi, this thread has actually been expanded under the title "A hypothetical model," in the Science and Skepticism forum, and has become quite extensive (and venomous, though no venom from me.) You might want to check out that version.

Basically, experts are a dime a dozen when it comes to this stuff. I pulled some name off the Web to back up current thinking. Current thinking could be wrong; most probably is wrong judging from history.

But current thinking is the best we have to go on, given the available data. That data show that if the universe if finite, it could be closed on itself. In this case it has finite area but no boundary, and in principle you could circumnavigate the universe, returning to where you started without encountering an edge. Or, it could be infinite, but still expanding. Infinite space can expand. In either scenario space does not have to be expanding "into" anything. The volume of space simply grows as time goes on, that's all. This stuff has been known for decades; I'm surprised it's so controversial here. Of course all this could be wrong. Those who claim it is wrong, however, must prove their claim.

Theli

Liquidrage...

Was I moraly obligated to post? No.
Was it a lifethreatening situation=? No.
Did I want to post? Yes.
Was it out of line? You seem to think so, but I don't.

I never posted that.
You were the one who drew the correlation between "please do" and "shut up", not me.

Now I know where you got your name from.
I was trying to explain my initial post and why I posted it, and what do I get?
"Fuck you!".

Wich ofcourse confirm my first impression (emotional outbursts). You are here to bark at people.

I agree. I'll leave this discussion to.

I would like to add that the reason why I posted this post public was that I got accused "in public", and I would like to have a chance to explain/defend myself so I won't look like a complete asshole in front of those who read this thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.