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Old 10-05-2002, 03:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kuu:
<strong>I was really thinking about a group of atheists who been isolated for whatever reason. Maybe a space colony or a disaster on Earth that they alone survived. I would also add that as a result of that isolation they would have no access to our literature that mentions God.

I was also thinking of what would occur in generations to come. 500, 1000 years down the track do you think religions would have risen again?</strong>
Yes, I do think they would rise again. Humans are inherently irrational and always create systematic myths to explain all sorts of occurrences. Even a group of atheists, could slip into a primitive mind-set, given the right conditions. Mortality will always chill the individual.

Science itself is coming to understand that behaviours which can lead to religiosity may have been naturally selected. Even a group of Phd. Chemists could end up with a religion which worhsips hydrogen. Look at theoretical physics. There are religious wack-os among them today.
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Old 10-05-2002, 03:43 PM   #12
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Depressing as it is, I have to agree with sullster. (It's not depressing to agree with you, sullster, just the topic under discussion ).

The only alternatives I can see to having religion rise again are implicit atheism (I hope I am using that term right) where people are atheists because they haven't heard of religion, not because they've fought their way free of it, which would probably be difficult to maintain; or if the colony of atheists kept the concept of God alive enough to specifically educate their children against it. And if they didn't have any literature that mentions God in any way, positive or negative, that too would be a risky thing; theism might become the equivalent of teenage rebellion.

-Perchance.
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Old 10-06-2002, 07:38 AM   #13
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Originally posted by Perchance:
<strong>Depressing as it is, I have to agree with sullster. (It's not depressing to agree with you, sullster, just the topic under discussion ).

The only alternatives I can see to having religion rise again are implicit atheism (I hope I am using that term right) where people are atheists because they haven't heard of religion, not because they've fought their way free of it, which would probably be difficult to maintain; or if the colony of atheists kept the concept of God alive enough to specifically educate their children against it. And if they didn't have any literature that mentions God in any way, positive or negative, that too would be a risky thing; theism might become the equivalent of teenage rebellion.

-Perchance.</strong>
In light of your observations, I would like to make another point.

You express a characteristic ideal which traces its origin to the Enlightenment. The Philosophes of the Enlightenment believed that humans were inherently endowed with reason and that education would bring it out. They were anti-religious and viewed it as superstition. Learning was "enlightenment", and would lead man to a life of reason. They were wrong.

We have to get over the ideals of the Enlightenment. Humans are not inherently drawn to reason. Reason is a tool and a tool which is not used without conscious effort. Our brains have evolved with strong currents of emotion and irrationality. Religion, not always a theistic type necessarily, will always rise, even in the most seemingly rational brains.

The only type of education in our proposed colony, would be one that teaches how the human brain evolved to have such aspects and how to deal with them. Maybe, the only way to control the inevitable religious outbreak would be to channel it with chapels or such places.
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Old 10-07-2002, 07:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kuu:
<strong>Do you think that some form of religion would eventually turn up?</strong>
Yes. Eventually someone would figure out the controlling power of religion and use it to their advantage.

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Old 10-07-2002, 12:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by sullster:
<strong>

We have to get over the ideals of the Enlightenment. Humans are not inherently drawn to reason. Reason is a tool and a tool which is not used without conscious effort. Our brains have evolved with strong currents of emotion and irrationality. Religion, not always a theistic type necessarily, will always rise, even in the most seemingly rational brains.
</strong>
You consistenly make statements like this that do not seem warranted by the evidence.
We have had only a brief moment in time during which a small part of humanity has been exposed to the power of reason. Most people, even today, even in the West, are poorly educated in critical thinking and posses limited understanding of science. Nonetheless, there has been a decrease in religiousity and superstition in many portions of society. Many things that were once universally attributed to supernatural causes are no longer attributed to such causes. Anecdotal evidence suggests that children of nontheist parents tend overwhelmingly to be nontheist.

I am surprised by the lack of confidence expressed by many posters on this topic.

There is undoubtedly abundant evidence that we are still caught tightly in the grip of unreason. But what evidence is there that whatever progress science has acheived is less than permanent?
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:31 PM   #16
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I think religion would form. I say this because I think that religion can serve a useful purpose. There is a need for a component of culture that serves as an example to people at all stages of their lives as to how they should conduct themselves to live in harmony with society. Religion at one time served this purpose. To bad it doesn't any more, it is far more obsessed with death than it is with life.

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Old 10-07-2002, 03:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kuu:
<strong>Do you think that some form of religion would eventually turn up?</strong>
Perhaps.

In that situation God might be inclined to intervene directly to a few members of the colony to reintroduce himself.
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Old 10-07-2002, 04:05 PM   #18
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Not all of them of course. Cause that would make too much sense.
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Old 10-07-2002, 04:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kuu:
<strong>I was really thinking about a group of atheists who been isolated for whatever reason. Maybe a space colony or a disaster on Earth that they alone survived. I would also add that as a result of that isolation they would have no access to our literature that mentions God.

I was also thinking of what would occur in generations to come. 500, 1000 years down the track do you think religions would have risen again?</strong>
I like this questions and I find myself discussing this very thing with some of my Xtian coworkers. They like to note that "of course God exists, we see him everyday", not realizing that all they really see is an illusion of s story of a god that they are supposed to see. People see what they want to see, and people want to see something as promising as a god, and wala! But had they never been told the story of god, there would be no mention of him. Of course, there would be stories of god-like beings, created out of pure imagination, much like our cartoons and comics, but this "newly-created" gods contribution and importance to civilization would bare no mention since those areas have already been touched by science.
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Old 10-07-2002, 05:47 PM   #20
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I guess this is a very subjective matter. Are you pessimist or optimist? Personally, I think that whatever motivates religion can be snuffed out in a society that adequately educates its members. I heartily agree with Galiel in that we simply haven't had enough time nor data to know the eventual outcome of such a hypothetical society. Despite that, I feel that the glass is half full.
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