Arken

(Don't worry, I get the joke and I think it's funny but I have a serious response to the 'why not' anyway.)

This may really belong in a different forum, but 'why not' if it really is a belief and not pretending to believe is always what has confused me about people switching religions. If they honestly believe their religion is true and then one day they honestly believe a different one is true, that seems to be like me going from believing that red is red to believing that red is blue. I can't make myself believe that red is blue... so it makes me wonder how these people can suddenly 'make themselves' (if that's even the right phrase to use) believe in a whole new pantheon and mythology.

gsx1138

Many people change their mind about things all the time. At one time the world was flat. Now it's not. I'm sure many things that we now think of as fact will eventually turn out false through more discovery. I think those people who turn to or away from religion/spirituality do so on their own journey of discovery. In my case I went from monotheism to polytheism. I was christian because that was what I was raised and that was all that I knew. At that time, Jesus was real and the Bible was God's word. Through discovery I've learned that those were beliefs were based on myths and not for me. It is not a matter of just deciding one day you're going to be polytheistic.

Arken

Yes, but once you decided that the Christian beliefs were mythology, what made you believe that your polytheistic beliefs weren't? I'm sorry if I seem dense here. I'm really trying to understand. If I were in your position (and I never have been as I have pretty much always been an atheist), I would have thought, "hmm... if that one's a myth, maybe they're all myths!"

gsx1138

They are all Myths. However, I think the word myth has come to mean something that it shouldn't. Myth is not bad. Because something is myth does not mean that you can't imerse yourself completely into its mysteries. Most Christians have lost their grasp on the words in their Bible because they want so bad for them to be literal fact. By doing this they miss all of the symbolism and metaphore that it contains. I'll simplify it as much as possible. I compare religion to the boy who cried wolf. It is doubtful that the story is real but there is an underlying message within the story. This is perhaps the most simple explanation and really leaves out alot.
I kind of take my beliefs from a little Joseph Campbell and Jung. I think myth helps to broaden the human experience. But my polytheistic beliefs are only for me. When it comes to debating religion (with a fundy) I turn into an atheist. I think atheists have the unique position of having no emotional attachment to religion. This gives you the ability to see through religious bullshit. As for myth, I freely admit that what I believe is based off of myths. However, it enriches my life and makes me a happier person. I also don't push them on anyone else unless they've tried to push theirs first. I fail at that sometimes. I hope that helps a little.

Arken

So in other words, you don't actually think any of it is true, but it gives you comfort to pretend it is?

emotional

gsx1138,

So you treat your religious beliefs as if they were a collection of stories? I thought the whole point of religion, which it shares with science, was to make sense of the real world. I'll be the first to admit my own beliefs (of one God and life after death) probably have no scientific support (evidential backing), but I never treat them as stories. For me, my beliefs are real - God and the afterlife are objectively real, true for everyone as well as for me. It would be no use at all if they were just stories or myths.

Other than recreation, what good comes out of treating your beliefs as myths?

gsx1138

I hold the possibility open that they may be true but without any real evidence there is no way I could prove that to anyone else. My beliefs are real to me in the sense that there is a really deep psychological response that comes from them. I don't need my religion to explain the real world. That is what science is for. However, my myths have real merit because there is more meaning to be unlocked from them. While most of it is stories, they are stories with purpose. Sometimes I'll sway to believing in supernatural gods and godesses. Sometimes I'll be more analytical about the whole thing. That is the thing with emotional responses; they are not always predictable.

I know that treating them as reality doesn't make them reality except in my own head. And sometimes that does happen. What I get is a sense of calm and balance in my life from the ritual. For me it is more about the actual experience.

emotional

Yes, that's the problem with supernatural beliefs: they can't have scientific evidence to support them. So with materialists, who see science as the be-all and end-all of the universe, they can't have any significance. But that doesn't make them any the less real. To all who say "I don't believe in the afterlife" I can't produce incontrovertible evidence (NDEs are, unfortunately, not incontrovertible evidence), but I can say, "you'll believe in the afterlife when you get there".



Science can only explain the natural universe. For materialists, who think that natural universe = all of reality, that is enough. But science cannot take into the account the astral planes, the parallel spiritual universes that envelope this natural one.

Science can deal only with the natural plane of reality. But that's not the whole of reality as materialists think. Much as this natural universe is big, the complete picture is even bigger.

gsx1138

Ok here is where I take a detour from the scientific. I see (what is called) magic, astral planes, different levels of existence as part of the natural world. I had an NDE about 13 years ago and I'm still near atheist. That is why polytheism fits for me. I see the gods and goddesses as higher on the evolutionary scale. Since I have no proof of this they remain in the realm of myth. The Christian god is logically impossible. At least the way it is described in the Bible. Polytheism allows for more logic but is still without evidence. I agree with you that science is not the end all be all as some would like to believe. However, it is the only method we currently have to prove something to someone else.
I'm sure many people here find it amusing (or frustrating) that I believe in a bunch of deities, magic, or alternate planes of existence. But the cummulation of my life experiences and study have led me here. Until I can prove to someone else that they are real they will remain myth. But that is the beauty of spirituality, it is for you and no one else. Explaining it is very difficult because it has to be experienced. Much like Zen.


After reading the above I realize that I'm all over the place. Sorry about that.

emotional

They aren't. If they were, they could be scientifically proved, and then everyone would believe in them.



How can that be?! I thought anyone who had an NDE would be CONVINCED of God's existence. Not that I've had one, but the NDEs sound very convincing. All NDEs tell of an encounter with a Loving Light Being - God.

That doesn't follow. Things can be real even if you can't prove them to others. I can't prove to other people that God and the afterlife are real, but the fact remains that they are real, no matter what people believe.