fatherphil

i don't know angel. i've met pastors who have divorced and remarried within the church itself. did you see the movie "the apostle"? i would not even attempt to argue that the main character, played by robert duvall, was not a Christian.

seebs

Wow, feel the love. No church I know of tells its congregation to steal, but I've stolen stuff. Does that mean I'm not a Christian at all, or that I really do need that salvation plan after all?

Amaranth

Anyone seen a True Scotsman around?

7thangel

So do you think, these people who divorce are true Christians?

You must know better. Or, maybe you do not know what a christian really like. Tip: a Christian is a "follower" of Christ.

Some make it easy to think because one believes in God, he is a theist. And some feast on such poor understanding.

seebs

"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".

Not all who follow do so without stumbling.

The Frood Dude

How do I become a True Christian (tm)?

wade-w

You'd have to ask the True Christians (TM) that one, Frood. Of course, it seems there are almost as many definitions of what a True Christian (TM) is as there are denominations. So I guess the answer will depend on who you ask.

Radorth

Re: Rhea

No, I'm saying you can't change your premises and tactics when it suits your conclusions. One cannot have no fruit and call themselves a Christian. How incredibly hypocritical to ask one day how you know a true Christian, and the next define who is a Christian, and talk about their weaknesses. One can have many faults and still be a Christian but you have no way of knowing certainly because you neither know all hearts, nor do you have an objective standard of righteousness yourself.

In the case of divorce, many Christians do get married before they are ready, and do have baggage they fail to admit. Yet if they humble themselves as they once did, they can be fulfilled in marriage. The question is whether they are making spiritual progress, which you show no sign of IMO. Yet you judge arbitrarily while :God is able to make him stand."

I thought 90% of Americans were Christian. I'm using the number laid out here. Is America not overburdened with Christians this week?

No, not all Christians because we have no definition of it. Was their lieutenant a Christian? Wanna bet? Do they have lots of prayer meetings in the Pentagon and Bush administration? I thought that was one of your big beefs. Whence comes this unique and historic behavior amongst soldiers? The atheist tooth fairy? It was a breathtaking act of of meekness and submission found nowhere in the history of war, and certainly not amongst any atheist soldiers I ever heard of. But do provide us with a like example.

Heh. How much of a stretch is that? Do they respect the Tibetan monks?

Rad

Rhea

Ahhh. So your claim is that this is NOT a Christian country founded by Christians?

I am always astounded by this claim. Simply astounded by its arrogance.

But I kind of chuckle inside, because every good person I know who is a christian would recoil in horror from such a statement.

On the other hand, maybe it's all true and the claim that Christianity is being subverted by [better] human morals and righteousness as evidenced by the fact that people who call themselves christians can't bring themselves to follow the evil that is "true" christianity... is actually accurate.

Rhea

RE: Radorth
WHAT are you talking about?
First of all, when did I ask how you know a true Christian?
Second, if I did ask such a question it would be reasonable since the Christians keep telling me I don't know how to recognize one.
Third, I think it is equally reasonable to consider anyone who calls themselves a christian to be a christian (I'm not a god to know - maybe you are?).
Fourth, how did you get from the no fruits sentence to the one can have faults sentence?
Fifth, what on earth does Christianity have to do with righteousness?
Sixth you never answered my question
Seventh talk about falling under "hypocritical" by claiming one can know how to locate not-christians but have no way of locating Christians.
Eighth... well, that was just utterly incoherent and I have no idea what you are saying.


What? What on earth are you saying? That true christians don't divorce? That I - a non-spiritual Atheist - am not making spiritual progress? Uuuuhhh, no, I guess I'm not. (?) That I "judge arbitrarily" based on labeling people as they claim to want to be labeled? That's arbitrary?

This was incoherent, too.

Yet here you're claiming 100% are. Haven't read the "atheists in foxholes" thread, Rad? I'm amazed that you could even make that statement.

Incoherent again. I'm shaking my head at the contradictions. I practically have vertigo.

So most of these people aren't true Christians. Even though they call themselves such. But they are Christians because they did something good. But they're not because they have bad fruits. But they are because this was a christian act. But they're not because they are divorced and true christians never divorce.

Do I wanna bet? I'll bet that a very large number of Christian servicemen are divorced. What that means in your world is completely up in the air.

??




Aside from the fact that China is a pretty religious nation, from what I understand, this is just the most bigoted crap I have heard in a long time. Aside from being incoherent, you appear to be a racist. Your condemnation of atheists as unable to do any good (or to have any militarily strategic wisdom) is incredibly distasteful.


I need to go wash.


I should have listened when my mind told me it was a waste of time to converse with you again. You have been completely unable or unwilling to actually read what is written and address the issues that people bring up. Instead, you counter with your preconcieved dialogue about what persecution is being heaped upon you today from your invented playbook. That's what makes all this so incoherent. You aren't even in the same conversation.