xeren

I asked:
And you answered:

That's not an answer. So I asked you again, and you said:

For the last time (this is getting frustrating), please tell me, without refering to society, simply:

Why would god disapprove of rape?

I ask this because, if you cannot come up with a reason god would diapprove of it, then obviously your whole argument falls apart.

Please indulge me. Why would god disapprove of rape?

-xeren

sourdough

being born and lived in Czech republic under atheistic comunist regime,for 18 years I can asure you that living without gods and religion is the best thing that can happen to a kid,no B.S.
fairy tales of heavenly skydady,or forced brainwashing of religious cults only interested in controling you mentaly and taking your money in the proces.
rules of society works on practical,logical thinking,and if you follow the laws of your country everyone's fine.
its pretty simple realy.

Zentraedi

Why don't you tell me why religions came to be in the first place silly us. You are another that misses a huge point I have been trying to make. 18 years is a considerably small amount of time.
I'd think it would take a good half a millenium for trial and error of a society based off nil. Does your society have any past after 18 years? The answer is yes it does. Was your country always been communist? People don't stop the way they act just because they are not allowed to practice religion. Religion helped create what you believe is right from wrong. Because your an atheist has no baring on how you acquired your morals.

Zentraedi

I think my questions were deep and I think most of the responses by others to the topic so far have been quite shallow. So I have for the most part given up. When is Xeren going to get the point that I know SOCIETY, and more specific friends and family are where you choose your morals. I can't seem to get through to him that, if he is in the U.S. like me, CHISTIANITY has dictated morals, not any kind of ATHEISTIC society. I guess you have to smoke KIND BUD to think this. Then we have people talking about the CODES of HUMMARABI as if that is what we live by. When is the last time you seen this kind of punishment in our law system. NEVER. I guess its my fault for not stating the obvious to begin with. Morals come from society, The United States is a society full of Christain morals. Okay, now in doing so, I can say if you are a U.S. citizen then you have not been in an atheistic society. What would your society be like without those exact Christian morals? Would you live happily without them. Maybe, maybe not.

I have a positive view in MAN with religon. I know religion does not exist for nothing. I just think I have a capacity to slightly edit morals dictated by my society, to my beliefs, close to godless and I don't like what I see. The natural way of things is very
"dark". Its not an opinion. Science tells you the natural way of things. I understand why we came up with these so called morals. If you observe the "wild", you should be able to notice that killing a harmless lifeform for pleasure will go unpunished. The fittest rule. Why should we set up laws when this would be indeed the truth. The laws have already been set. People like Hawkingfan don't seem to realize this. Mankind without religion I think would be a disaster. At least in large societies trying to work together.

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zentraedi ]

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zentraedi ]</p>

Zentraedi

Ok my point in whole, atheism bad but the truth, religion good but false. If these statements were true, which one would you pick?

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zentraedi ]

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zentraedi ]</p>

xeren

Zentraaedi, you said i don't understand you, but i do, i realize that we live in a very christian nation. And maybe this society's morals are based off of christian mroals, maybe they aren't. Maybe people could come up with morals without religion, maybe they can't. But why do you not answer MY question!?

Why does god disapprove of rape? If he dissaproves because it is bad, because it hurts people and makes society unstable, then why can't people dissapprove of it for the same reasons without needing a god?

The other option is that rape is bad because god disapproves of it, but that just means that what is good and bad is completely arbitrary.

-xeren

Zentraedi

And again I say why would you ask the question to begin with if religions did not exist?

Walross

ok, religions do exist. Please answer the question as asked.

Walross

Hubble head

Forgive me if I made assumptions about what you may or may not think, I don't really know you or what you may be trying to get at here(at ii.com) and that was poor debate form.

To answer your question-
Neither compute. Religion is mostly bad. History, when properly examined and compared to religious influences of the times, will show this.

Religion is mostly bad for basing key answers to life on fantasy and make-believe and then going about your lives as if it were a final and absolute answer and way to be. It takes away from man's self and purpose to continue solving our universe's mysteries.

Atheism is always good, it represents the truth(as far as we can observe it) so real answers, instincts and nature can be utilized in the equation for solutions. I say we'd be better off if that pov was better reflected in society's morals or in the search for the cure of diseases and genetic disorders by using stem cells.

That being said, there is some evidence IMO, that some humans are (born or raised?) less civilized and incapable of fair, cooperative, healthy behavior without an imaginary sky freak to carry a whip/bribe to make them act accordingly. It’s one reason why I'll say religion is mostly bad and not all bad. Some non theists will say we’d be better off letting a natural selection process filter these Neanderthals out of our genetic pools but for now, they get their religious crutch and place in society.

Morals have to be studied for the timeframe they originated in to even get a clear understanding of where it came from and who/what purpose it served.

A good litmus test for morals is whether or not they serve everyone, the self, or the group's welfare and to what end.

So I agree that morals still serve a purpose. But ultimately who's purpose and is it still valid for today's society is a huge part of it.

[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: science ]

[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: science ]</p>

xeren

What he said, Zentraedi, please answer the question, for Jebus' sake.

You lose a lot of credibility when you don't answer a question posed aproximately five times.