gravitybow

I agree, they are often described as already having eternal life. That's why I pose the question about the redundant everlasting tree.

To be consistent, both trees are real or both trees are metaphorical, but not one real and the other a metaphor. The story is confusing enough as it is.

I don't disagree with you there. But you often hear it espoused on religious radio and television. Even some creationists say it (Carl Baugh comes immediately to mind). If they want to promote such beliefs, then they should address the conundrum of the tree.

Dr Rick

Maybe, but let's not forget that the pairing of man and woman was almost an "afterthought;" YWEH made all the animals in pairs, but Adam was the only human until it became apparent that something was missing from his life. That being the case, it's not clear that YWEH intended humans to procreate when he first made Adam.

Rick

beastmaster

Xns say it as an Apologetic for God's lie that "you must not eat of the Tree of Knowledge for you shall surely die." Apologists invent the notion that mortality began upon the eating of the fruit. Strange that Genesis completely neglects to mention this gravely important transformative event! Moreover, as you properly point out, the Apologetic, if accepted, would make the Tree of Life inexplicably superfluous.

Amos

Good point. It only says "you will know that you will die" whereas before you did not *consciously* know.

gravitybow

Yes, that's true according to the Genesis chapter 2 account. But the chapter 1 account says man and woman were paired and commanded to multiply. Sorry, that was the one I was referring to:

Genesis 1: 27-28
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
28: And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."

Again, just more confusion because Moses was such a crappy proofreader.

Loki

It's very interesting to me that there are two creation stories, which are contradictory. Many Christians deny they're contradictory, or deny they're two stories, but two distinct stories, all in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, exist. I prefer the first, as it takes emphasis off mankind as being so exalted over all the earth, as I think this is a very egotistical pov, which results in species extinction and pollution among other things. But the third chapter is so wonderful, as it represents the start of life of humankind and of the individual.

The garden of Eden is like the womb, with the tree of knowledge as the spinal cord. The innocent, sexless creatures reside within, not knowing of opposites including pain and pleasure, good and evil. When they finally awaken to such knowledge, they are expelled (and it is traumatic and perhaps violent), and must spend the rest of their lives trying to acheive eternal life (ie, oneness with God, which an atheist may interpret to be an enlightened state of being [whatever enlightment you feel completes your life]).

Amos

In Gen.1 is essence of existence is created and in Gen.2 that which was created in Gen.1 is formed. It means that essence precedes existence which is just the reverse of existence precedes essence. It points at the intelligent design within creation and therefore the fall of man is needed wherein the ego identity that is conjectured upon the TOK. The TOK is needed to modify the TOL that was created in Gen.2 under the name of "woman" who therefore was not created in Gen 1 to have a corporeal existence of being (Male-and-female is adrogyne at the point of creation in Gen. 1). Notice Gen.3:6 where woman saw that the TOK was good for gaining food wisdom and beauty.

So in Gen.3 we form our ego consciousness wherein we go by our sense perception to distinguish between good and evil so we can preselect that which is good for our own well being as the non-rational animal man.

The TOL (right brain) is your womb and the TOK (left brain) is your spine.

malookiemaloo

Hi again,

First of all, God did not release sin into the world. The Bible says that sin 'entered' the world through one man, Adam. Of course God knew what was going to happen, but is there really a problem with this?

The whole question of creation, free will v God's sovereignty, sin and, most of all, redemption is so sublime that it is really beyond our intellectual capacity to understand. I know that to 'believe' something which is beyond human understanding does not go down too well on the sec web but like it or not, there are some things exist but are 'beyond understanding'.

One final point. While it appears that Eve was to blame and she was not guiltless in the matter, the Bible has the buck resting with Adam-see Romans five.


m

oriecat

I'm sorry, malookie, but that is not what was said. I based my original question on the assumption that god did not plan for A&E to sin, and asked what would have happened if they hadn't, "if everything had gone according to plan". There were then responses that said, what if that WAS the plan? If god knew about it, even had it as part of his plan, then how is he not responsible for it? Maybe that's too sublime to understand too.

And yes, I realize that the Bible says it's Adam, not Eve, but look at the facts in Genesis. It was Eve, she listened to the serpent, she bit and then had Adam bite. Where is Adam's fault in that? I think this is just an example of biblical dishonesty, and shows how woman isn't worthy of anything in the bible. They're peons and they certainly can't take credit for setting us free. With Eve's action, we gained knowledge. But we couldn't have that, so it had to be rewritten later to say it was Adam.

malookiemaloo

Sorry for misunderstanding your original point.

The whole subject like this almost transcends knowledge. God told A&E not to eat from the ToKoG&E. Can God be responsible if His command is broken, irrespective of whether it was Adam or Eve to blame? Can't see it myself.

But isn't it the case that if we blame God, we become like Adam who said to God 'the woman YOU gave me caused me to eat...................'

Us humans will do/say anything but accept responsibility for our spiritual condition!


m