George Oilwell

Germany In 1933: The Easy Slide Into Fascism

Misso

Not again...

Why are always the few similarities emphasised, and never the differences? Are people blind or willingly passing by on the fact that Germany had been humilated in and even more after one of the largest wars ever, that they had no economy to speak of, that they had an inflation that was the second highest ever? Hitler promised to make it all better for people that had nothing. Bush only promised to make things better for people that already have everything.

Or am I reading too much into this, and is this thread only started to outline (a few of) the circumstances leading to the rise of Nazism, and not to make a comparisson to contemporary US?

Evangelion

Because it's the similarities which present such a problem. Who the hell cares about the differences, when your life could be totally ruined by the similarities?

Food for thought.

Tristan Scott

I agree that it is ludicrous to compare President Bush with Hitler, however that isn't to say that we should turn a blind eye to the reactionary, anti-American, police-state policies being foisted on us by the Bush administration.

Even though I believe these policies are being initiated for the most part under the good intentions of protecting us from the type of attack we suffered on 9/11, I also believe the reactionaries of this country don't seem to understand that there is an inherent risk living in an open, free society. When Bush told us on 9/11 that the attack was in fact an attack on our freedom he was correct. It is also correct to say that since 9/11 his administration has done it's level best to see to it that the attack was a success. We do not enjoy the same level of freedom that we enjoyed on 9/10/2001.

Hubble head

Germany wasn't truly fascist back then. The totalitarian communist Soviets, who were sitting on the far left, would call dictator led Germany "fascist" because from where the Russian's communists stood back then everyone was fascist. That was the rhetoric of the day and people not too familiar with fascism let it stick. Another common mistake is when people associate Nazi Germany's left with liberalism -Nazi Germany's left was more conservative which is another reason why it got good marks early on from the Catholics and Italians.

So to call the US Fascist under the same preamble would be OK, I guess, [i]if you were much further to the left. [i]

Germany was in essence a totalitarian dictatorship that had political behaivior of both the left and right at the time. Hitler had one ideology -to win. In that respect our PNAC/AEI guys are similar to Hitler's view of global order.

We are like Nazi Germany in a few bad ways, but the fascist comparison just doesn't hold water because Germany was never really fascist. Italy was fascist, and an ally of Germany. Back then fascism made Italy unpopular with the rest of Europe and Germany was one of the few who they could easily do business with. IN that respect, considering whom our friends are in the world today, we have more in common with Italy's fascism than Germany's "so-called" fascism.

For more on fascism, there's a good read here from Trotsky:
Fascism - What it is.

Misso

My dad used to have a moustache, and so did Hitler. Does this similarity present a problem? No. Granted, it's not on the same level, but neither are Hitler and Bush. The things that happened in Germany were rather unique. Just becasue a few factors are similar now, doesn't mean all are. If not all (or even most) factors are the same, it's not gonna happen again. That's why people should pay attention to the differences, and not just to the similarities.

Sure, some of the things this administration is doing aren't pretty, some may even be violating constitutional rights, but that doesn't mean they're Nazi's. So stop equating the two already.

Evangelion

*snip*

I'm not talking about mere fallacies of equivocation. You're a European. You can do better than this. Please address the issue. Don't try and fudge it, because I'll only drag you back on topic.

*snip*

Well, obviously. I've already agreed with this, so what's your point?

Straw man. I never said anything of the kind.

Straw man. I never did anything of the kind.

Are you sure you're not really an American in disguise?

Blixy Sticks

Thanks for the advice. I will now be off to feed Cracker Jacks to the bears at Yosemite.

Hubble head

Ad Hominum. And as a reluctant american I object to your comment directed to Misso. (although I wished I was an American living in the Netherlands)

Misso

Would I have gotten away with this arguementation if I wasn't European? Nationality (or regionality, in this case) has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.
To adress the issue: what excactly are you talking about, if not mere fallacies?
Yes there is more emphasis on nationalism, yes there is somewhat of a constant fear. Don't know much about the other factors mentioned, but from what I gathered, they're not nearly as bad as they were in Nazi Germany (for instance, I don't recall Bush ("The Leader") being identified as "the nation"), or they are not true/not a change in the situation. Nazi Germany didn't have "wars of aggression launched on weaker nations", they had one, against Poland, and that wasn't just an attack on one country (a "weaker nation") but was the start of WW2. Corporate and governmental interests have always been overlapping in some areas. And the "vast mass-media propaganda campaigns"? Maybe I'm missing them because I don't live in the US, maybe because they're (virtually) non-existent.
I think the similarities are rather exaggerated. It's easy to make a comparisson to Nazi Germany, it's actually quite hard to make a valid one.

And I never said you said anything of the kind. Perhaps you're reading too much into it.

My fault, I meant it in general, but I should have made that more clear.

Talking about strawman. Nationality has nothing to do with his.