Freethought & Rationalism Archive

elwoodblues · 02-24-2002, 08:47 PM

"This question is silly to me because. . .I don't think it's necessarily immoral to be selfish."

Preach on, scigirl!

Arrowman · 02-24-2002, 11:46 PM

Why do "they regulate sex through ethics"? Whoever "they" are - 1sec, I'm a little confused about what exactly you're asking here. Is this about theists, or atheists? Social norms, or legal restrictions? Whatever - here's an answer to one aspect at least...

I think it is quite legitimate for a secular society to apply ethics to some aspects of sex; as sex can sometimes be an activity in which one person can inflict harm on another. scigirl is right - it's not necessarily immoral to be selfish, but selfishness is not really the issue here.

- Is it ethical to have sex with someone when you know you have an STD, without telling them?
- Is it ethical to have sex with someone when you know they are under some illusion as to the risk of pregnancy?
- It is ethical to have sex with someone when you know that they are expecting much more (emotionally) from the event than you?

Is this such a strange or terrible thing? Are you saying that if you were to engage in one of the above, "that's no-one's business but your own"?

PS Laurentius, can you post a link to that "Sexual Morality FAQ"?

1sec · 02-25-2002, 12:19 AM

Dear Arrowman,

no man, no.

I'm talking about the most harmless situations possible.

My friens sometimes tend to consider me unreliable just because I do not have a regular sex mate (rather occasional ones - the number is not the issue here). I find this abusive.

My neighbors suspect me all the same.

At work married people (the majority of them) categorize me as not reaching maturity yet.

one more thing: if women always expect more than i have to offer, does that mean i am immoral? should i just stay away from them? i mean, if i make sure that no one gets ill or pregnant, why should i be the selfish one?

but anyway, it is the people around that bother me most... they keep preaching what is moral to me although i don't think i have really hurt anyone

morality and sex should not mix

thank you juiblex:

Quote:

Ok, so the obvious issues have been brought up in a thread like this; babies, STDs, and the question of paternity.
All three, are now in modern society, preventable. (as a whole).

apart from the fact that its relatively difficult to dispell traditional values such as these, is there an actual reason why the sin/sex equation still exists? And is it still necessary to keep it going at all?

phaedrus · 02-25-2002, 12:56 AM

1sec

Just one question... Why are you bothered about what other people think is "right" about sex?

emphryio · 02-25-2002, 07:24 AM

Can I answer that last one?

If people disapprove of an action of yours, and they have some type of power over you, then they might harm you in some way.

And with that said, as long as we live in a flesh and blood world, just about everyone is capable of having some power over just about everyone else.

So it doesn't just have to be your boss firing you, or society ostracizing you. Just the knowledge that any one individual who disagrees with you might be willing to become violent, that can affect you. That can cause you instead to assimilate and not do what seems natural and right to yourself.

abe smith · 02-25-2002, 07:57 AM

It appears that the reason for sex is BIOLOGICAL = survival-oriented. What the fuck has any of that to do w/ morality?

scigirl · 02-25-2002, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus:
<strong>1sec

Just one question... Why are you bothered about what other people think is "right" about sex?</strong>

I want to answer it too. If you dare, venture over to the Baptistboard.com, and read how their views about sex could lead to making it a crime to be a homosexual! Or for atheists to have children!

That's why I care, because people's attitudes about this issue will affect us, whether we like it or not.

Laurentius · 02-25-2002, 12:03 PM

For Arrowman:

[code] <a href="http://www.counterrevolution.net/sex.html" target="_blank">http://www.counterrevolution.net/sex.html</a> </pre>[/quote]

elwoodblues · 02-25-2002, 12:28 PM

Boy, that site really made me sick to my stomach. I'll be back later to thrash it a bit. Maybe much later; I've got a project due at midnight. But I shall return.

Absolutely sickening...

Jayhawker Soule · 02-25-2002, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1sec:
<strong>Why I am morally suspicious if I demand from sex as much quantity and qulity as I demand from food, let's say?
</strong>

Demand what you will, but you'll stand a better chance of meeting those demands if you stop advertising yourself as 1sec. Just a thought ...

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02-24-2002, 08:47 PM	#11
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	"This question is silly to me because. . .I don't think it's necessarily immoral to be selfish." Preach on, scigirl!

02-24-2002, 11:46 PM	#12
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	Why do "they regulate sex through ethics"? Whoever "they" are - 1sec, I'm a little confused about what exactly you're asking here. Is this about theists, or atheists? Social norms, or legal restrictions? Whatever - here's an answer to one aspect at least... I think it is quite legitimate for a secular society to apply ethics to some aspects of sex; as sex can sometimes be an activity in which one person can inflict harm on another. scigirl is right - it's not necessarily immoral to be selfish, but selfishness is not really the issue here. - Is it ethical to have sex with someone when you know you have an STD, without telling them? - Is it ethical to have sex with someone when you know they are under some illusion as to the risk of pregnancy? - It is ethical to have sex with someone when you know that they are expecting much more (emotionally) from the event than you? Is this such a strange or terrible thing? Are you saying that if you were to engage in one of the above, "that's no-one's business but your own"? PS Laurentius, can you post a link to that "Sexual Morality FAQ"?

02-25-2002, 12:56 AM	#14
phaedrus Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Indus Posts: 1,038	1sec Just one question... Why are you bothered about what other people think is "right" about sex?

02-25-2002, 07:24 AM	#15
emphryio Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: WV Posts: 4,369	Can I answer that last one? If people disapprove of an action of yours, and they have some type of power over you, then they might harm you in some way. And with that said, as long as we live in a flesh and blood world, just about everyone is capable of having some power over just about everyone else. So it doesn't just have to be your boss firing you, or society ostracizing you. Just the knowledge that any one individual who disagrees with you might be willing to become violent, that can affect you. That can cause you instead to assimilate and not do what seems natural and right to yourself.

02-25-2002, 07:57 AM	#16
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	It appears that the reason for sex is BIOLOGICAL = survival-oriented. What the fuck has any of that to do w/ morality?

02-25-2002, 12:03 PM	#18
Laurentius Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lucky Bucky, Oz Posts: 5,645	For Arrowman: [code] <a href="http://www.counterrevolution.net/sex.html" target="_blank">http://www.counterrevolution.net/sex.html</a> </pre>[/quote]

02-25-2002, 12:28 PM	#19
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	Boy, that site really made me sick to my stomach. I'll be back later to thrash it a bit. Maybe much later; I've got a project due at midnight. But I shall return. Absolutely sickening...

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