August Spies

LS:
Asking a meat eater why they eat meat is not unlike approaching a Christian and asking them why they believe in god. They usually don't have a real answer.

This seems like total BS to me. First off, let me say the majority of my close friends are Vegan. Many who aren't are vegetarian. I hear vegetarians say meat eaters tease them and such... I dont' know. I DO know that vegans are totally self-rigthtious and love to attack people for not being vegan/vegetarian.

anyways ill tell you why I eat meat. It tastes good. I don't have any moral problems with killing animals for food. I can understand why someone would, but I don't agree. So since im neutral on the issue, as most meat eaters are, then it is simply a matter of liking the taste (and its cheaper normally).

Animal life is quite clearly distinct from vegetable life. Vegetables are incapable of any thought or feeling, so the rules do not apply.

this is not as simple as you might like us to believe. "Animals" range from unfeeling sponges to worms to birds to humans. It is not a clear "vegetables dont' have thoughts" to "anmials do". Most animals don't think.

Meat eating simply should not be tolerated in the civilised world.

and you are saying meat eating is like fundamentalism?

You eat it if you want, but don't try to pretend you do so with moral impunity.

I do. Animals are not humans. THey are not rational, they do not have our capacities. They do not think in the way we do. Perhaps some of the higher mamals do... but I dont' eat primates.

I have no problem with vegans/vegetarians. However, I think many of their arguments are silly. Especially the "you are just a speciest" argument, pretending all species are the same.

August Spies

And some raving anti-vegetarians.

eh........

what does this mean? Are there really anti-vegetarians? perhaps, and they are stupid. But most peopel are just not vegetarians. I don't know of any meat eaters who actively try to "convert" vegans/vegetarians. I don't know any meat eaters that consider themselves on moral high ground.

August Spies

lisarea

Why did so many people feel a need to argue with my choice and actually try to subvert it by tricking me into eating meat? What is it about someone's personal choice that makes people so hostile and defensive?

despite my "anti-vegetarian" posts above, im going to disagree here.

For vegans this issue is about immoral murder. It is like telling a chirstian that abortion is "just a choice." It is not.

Personally I am pro-choice and a meat eater, but I am not blind enough to pretend that its just a matter of personal preference. For a meat eater or a pro-choicer this may be the case, but it is not the case for the vegan or pro-lifer. These issues are more complex.

LS:

I am happy to report that I wash my hair regularly, I dress like a human being, I am not an anti-capitalist, and I'm 50 pounds overweight. I'm as normal as everyone else. Just fatter.

Too bad, hippie anarchists are much cooler people than fat bougie people.

LordSnooty

Well, there's a strawman if ever I saw one. If you eat sponges and worms, I'd be quite surprised. I think most meat-eaters eat cows, sheep and pigs, amongst others.
So just to make this clear - you don't care about causing pain or suffering to any animal, as long as it's not too similar to a human? You have no moral problem with causing something to suffer or die just to please your taste buds?
I don't think animals are the same as people, and I don't think anyone said that they are. These strawman arguments come thick and fast whenever anyone mentions vegetarianism. Always the same stereotypes.

Paul

August Spies

Paul:

just shouting strawmen doesn't prove anything.

Well, there's a strawman if ever I saw one. If you eat sponges and worms, I'd be quite surprised. I think most meat-eaters eat cows, sheep and pigs, amongst others.

no it is not a strawman. It disproves your specific claim that there is a clear cut line between animals and vegetables. and what it IMPLIES is that there is not clear cut line in morality as to what is acceptable animals to eat, it is somewhat subjective.

This is why some vegetarians still eat fish, or some vegans still eat honey.

You have no moral problem with causing something to suffer or die just to please your taste buds?

I agree that much of the current animal treatment practices are morally bad. I don't think it is right to lock animals in cages where they can't move for instance. But the basic principle: killing animals for food, I have no moral problems with it.

and I don't think anyone said that they are.

well you must not know many vegans. I know tons. I have heard the "speciest" argument many a time. This is not a straw man by any means. Nor is it a stereotype. I merely said I think many of the arguments vegans give are silly. The speciest argument is ONE example of an argument I think is silly. I have heard it many times, thus it IS an argument. THere is no straw man involved.

LordSnooty

Nothing more to argue about then it is there?

And that's why I gave up arguing when people challenged me about my vegetarianism when I was a kid. Because I realised early on that most people don't care about animals in the slightest. It's a lack of empathy, and it's as simple as that.

Just one of the many reasons that I am ashamed to be human.

Paul

August Spies

LS:
this is why people think vegetarians are
self-righteous you put yourself on moral high ground and then claim non-vegetarians (i.e. the majority of the world) is defient, we are lacking in basic qualities like empathy.

ashamed to be human? yeah cause animals don't eat other animals.

believe what you want, just don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

The AntiChris

Arrowman

Yes, let's.

Indeed it is not surprising. His insulting and baseless generalisations about meat-eaters do however call for rebuttal.

As opposed to Lord Snooty's first post, which included the following:

So am I

Arrowman

Ahem.

Shall I stop there?