Realityisreality

I don't hate the big bang because I cannot hate something that never existed.Faith is described by God through the apostle Paul.It is evidence and substance."Now faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen." It would do well for atheists and the like to learn what that means before they post.Substance and evidence=faith and faith=substance and evidence.Faith IS evidence.So is substance.By faith I believe my reply will be posted in a minute or two.By faith,I will live this day and by faith I will mail a letter and believe it will go to where I sent it.Atheists live by faith everyday,but they cannot understand it.They don't demand of the Post Office,"Prove to me that you WILL deliver my letter to where I send it!I must have evidence.Show me.Prove it. I want to see."They do not do this, but by faith they give their mail to the post office and believe it will be done even as the post office said it will.God told us he is real and proved it at the Cross.I do not demand,but I,by faith believe he is true and cannot lie.I cannot see the other posters,but I can read their posts so they must exist.Atheists claim logic,but they have none that is apparent or visible.God said the fool SAYS in his heart there is no God,but he didn't say they BELIEVE or KNOW it.He said they just SAY it.It is all talk.

Pantera

Anyone who says "you fool" is in danger of hellfire.

TROLL ALERT!

hezekiah jones

What is your explanation for the observed expansion of the universe then? Care to hazard a guess at the value of the Hubble Constant?

There were 12 apostles. Saul of Trousers wasn't one of them.

It means nothing to "atheists and the like."

The only thing faith is evidence of is faith. What good is that.

"Substance," or "matter," if you prefer, unlike faith, may be observed, measured, etc.

You believe your reply will be posted in a minute or two based on numerous empirical observations of previous replies being posted in a minute or two. You might want to take this issue up with David Hume.

Once again these are not examples of faith but inductions based on empirical observations.

Why not? You just explained it to us. Not that we didn't already know, mind you.

Of course we do. Why would we patronize the postal service if it hadn't previously demonstrated the ability to deliver mail in a reasonably competent manner? Thirty-four cents is a lot of money to risk on "faith."

How exactly does mail delivery count as "the evidence of things not seen"?

Bully for you. Here's your medal.

Brilliant. Well done.

Except of course for the systems of logic, which are both apparent and visible. They are a hell of a lot more useful than your nebulous concepts of "faith" and "god."

"God" didn't say that, the Psalmist said that. Twice.

Well, the Psalmist wasn't terribly thorough. I bet there are a lot of other things the Psalmist didn't say.

The buybull? Yeah, pretty much.

The Resistance

Tired but true cliche #13: The person who says in their heart there is no God may be a fool, but the person who says it out loud is wise.

lpetrich

Here's what: these two have in common:

• Fossils seem to confirm Noah's Flood
• The Big Bang seems to confirm Genesis 1

The most straightforward interpretation of fossils is that they are remains that had been buried underneath sediments carried by water. And Noah's Flood does seem to be a logical source of that water -- at least until one does detailed studies of rock strata.

So Voltaire decided to try to push some alternate hypotheses, because the most straightforward one had seemed at the time to be such great evidence of Noah's Flood.

The Big Bang seems to support "let there be light!", though it is significantly different from the Bible. Genesis 1 pictures a dark heaven and earth that God illuminates with light that he creates, while the Big Bang can be described as gigantic exploding fireball that happened long before the Earth, which is much smaller than the rest of the Universe.

LinuxPup

The main reasons why YECs fight the Big Bang, is because they 1) Don't see it in the Bible, 2) Think that billions of years equals biological macro-evolution, and 3) Think that it proves the lack of God. I'm sure there are other reasons too, but those are some of the big ones I've seen when talking to Young Earth Creationists..

The problem with point 1 is that the premise "I don't see it in the Bible, therefore it is untrue" is untrue. The Bible says nothing of Pythagorean's Theorem, but you'll find few who fight it adamantly. The Bible does say there was a beginning of time, that God transcends time, that the universe is stretching out, that the universe was created by God out of nothing, and that God does not change (a property of something seperate from time). This does not mean the Bible says the Big Bang is true, but it certainly doesn't contradict it.

The problem with point 2 is the belief that biological evolution has billions of years to begin with, and that billions of years is enough time. Life has millions of years to work with, not billions. This is because of the spontaneous appearances of life, even after worldwide cataclysmic attacks from asteroids, volcanos, etc. repeatedly. Scientists at the Origins of Life conference recognized this as a problem for their theory.

The problem with point 3 is obvious. Some say because God exists outside the universe, He cannot have any interaction with it. I have heard no reason why this is true, and nothing comes to mind. A God who can create the universe could easily react with it. If I create a house, why can't I enter it?

Christians should have no fear of the Big Bang, in fact, if Christianity is true, they should fear no science: it will either show their belief is wrong, and they can do whatever they want, or it will confirm their belief, which is something people generally like a lot.

doink-chan

It's as simple as this:

Fundies think that the BB is evil and sacreligious because it is not mentioned in the Bible. These doinks believe that God was the only one who created the universe, and they just can't see how the universe could create itself without the help of a creator. Therefore, they are afraid of it.

LinuxPup

The Big Bang doesn't say it created itself. In fact that contradicts simple logic. Something cannot come from nothing. Everything that has a beginning has a cause. The universe has a beginning therefore it has a cause. I know this is a cliche argument, but it's true. God has no beginning, therefore he has no cause.

BLoggins02

The Big Bang doesn't "say" anything.

And yet here we are. There are only two possibilities: either "nothing" is a nonexistant state, and there was always "something", or "something" came from "nothing".

"Everything" must include God must it not?

Therefore God came from nothing, which you previously stated was impossible.

You can't sidestep the issue by decreeing God as the exception. A God which came from nothing or always existed is just as difficult to comprehend (actually, more so) than a universe which came from nothing or always existed.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Until empirical evidence shows otherwise, that "somewhere" might as well be the universe, since that is all we can observe and measure.

Besides, I grant and you that it is a possibility that the universe was created by an intelligent creator, and if so that creator was definitely an awesome being, but how Xians get from quantum theory and astrophysics to a God that cares about whether we boil a goat in its mothers milk and smites entire civilizations because they weren't "his" "chosen ones" is beyond me.

Apikorus

Why does everything have to have a cause?

What lies north of the North Pole?