HelenM

Thanks for accepting my apology. On the other hand you have in effect said I was lying in my apology. You are saying I implied something I said I did not imply.

If you said to me "I did not imply that" I would take you at your word, jaliet.

I wish you would take me at mine.

I forgive you but I think it's worth mentioning because it's a very serious thing relationally to doubt someone's own word about what they meant.

Are you really calling me a liar?

That's not what I am.

love
Helen

rainbow walking

Jaliet: I was just attempting to show you that there are other naturalistic explanations that are more plausible that your metaphysical one.

Rw: I have had 40 years to think of them all and to research them as well. You only scratched the surface of the POSSIBLE naturalistic explanations available. There are a host of speculatives. My dog could have been bitten by a ferocious flea at that particular moment and was simple expressing his discomfort or he could have had a flashback from some time in the past when he was chased by someone who hurt him and simply mistook me momentarily for that other person.

I wonder if he would have behaved the same way had there been a rattlesnake there coiled and ready to strike? Or would he have been growling at the snake rather than me?

What would have been your response if you were a theist and I gave this testimony as an atheist to demonstrate that there are naturalistic explanations for even the most bizarre occurrences?

What if I had attributed my salvation to quantum particle physics?


Jaliet: One last question (I am amused that you have labelled this as an "inquisition")
How old are you?

Rw: 46

Jaliet: I refuse to look away just because someones beliefs make them nice. We can still be nice without holding onto baseless beliefs.

Rw: Then you wouldn’t mind supporting that statement in this forum? You became insulting and inflammatory in this last exchange without provocation.

Hi Helen,
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. How are you and the family? Had a merry Christmas I hope. Ready for 2 OO 2?
<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

HelenM

Ted Hoffman

This page is certainly becoming colourful. Its nice to see that for a change. The exchange of nice messages between God-fearing decent people .
Back to serious matters.
I take your word. I believe you are sorry for what you said. You see, the fact of the matter is that you introduced the question of how I use my time into the issue. Life is not as simple as saying "Oh, I hate you!", then you later come and say "Oh, no I did not mean that". I understand english and your words are still on this thread. I know you are sorry, but that does not change the meaning of your words. I reserve the right of whether to take your word or not. You cant play with my guilt by accusing me of calling you a liar. That is manipulative and unfair. So I either take your word or I am calling you a liar?
You cant just say Poof! and the meaning of a statement changes.
I just feel its enough that you are sorry. But the meaning of your words do not have to change for you to be convinced that I have accepted your apology.
<strong> I believe you are sorry and for me that is enough - I forgive you. I do not have to agree that your statement had a different meaning for my acceptance of your apology to be sincere or complete.
<strong> Except when you can see the meaning clearly.
<strong> Agreeing with you cannot be a conditionality for me accepting your apology and forgiving me.
So I dont think you can disqualify my acceptance of your apology because I cannot turnaround with you.
<strong> I know dear.
Let it rest.

Ted Hoffman

Helen
Look at it this way, this is a case of one person saying the glass is half full and the other saying its half empty.
Whats important is that the glass has water.
I accept your apology but I do not have to read the statement differently for me to accept the apology.
That is how I see it. I am not saying you are wrong, I just dont agree.

Ted Hoffman

Does the number of years reflect the effectiveness of your research and its success, or is it meant to intimidate me and diminish what I say? How is the 4o years relevant?
Are you submitting here that its your experience (since you own so many dogs and other animals) that when dogs are bitten by fleas, they standing in front of their owners, legs spread and set as if ready to spring, teeth bared and snarling very convincingly at their owners?
Is it your testimony that your dog had a troubled past and had mental flashes and when it it stood in front of you, legs spread and set as if ready to spring at you, teeth bared and snarling very convincingly at you? Are you telling us the dog that saved you was deranged? Is that how healthy dogs behave?
Are you submitting here that when a dog sees a rattlesnake coiled and ready to strike, it will stand in front of its owners, legs spread and set as if ready to spring, teeth bared and snarling very convincingly at their owners?
Is that your experience?
Yes, that I would expect - and oh, it would also bark at it.
First I would ask you the above questions, then I would assess your response for logic, common sense and honesty, then I would compare it with what I know and what others know, then I could accept your respose as adequate or reject it as unsatisfactory/ erroneous. I would then provide you with my reasons for doing so. So first answer the questions if you are keen on knowing my response.
That would be all fine, you can even attribute it to Sai Baba or Buddha, so long as you demonstrate that its rational and consistent with human experience and reason. And demonstrate that it is indeed quantum particle physics and not psychokinesis or cold fusion.

Jaliet: How old are you?

Rw: 46
I respect that. Thank you for telling me.

Jaliet: I refuse to look away just because someones beliefs make them nice. We can still be nice without holding onto baseless beliefs.

Rw: Then you wouldn’t mind supporting that statement in this forum? You became insulting and inflammatory in this last exchange without provocation.
I wouldnt mind sir. For example, I cant allow my wife to be totally obedient to me because she believes that if she questions what I say, she will burn in hell. I would rather she knows she can choose to disobey. We cant take advantage of peoples ignorance because it makes the society better/ safer/ tame. There is the saying: those who know the least obey the best. Thus the church has always fought science, making it blasphemous to question God, or the sacred texts. Ignorance in people lends them to exploitation by others ignorant people scare easily and are more docile and subservient.

Please respond to my evaluation of your earlier assertions.

Ted Hoffman

And oh, by the way Rainbow walking, looking at the speculative propositions you have given above, and looking at the facts you have blatantly ignored to make your assertions, one wonders what you REALLY were doing during that period you claim was 40 years of researching what you call naturalistic explanations.

Do you want to believe that bad?

HelenM

jaliet when I say I didn't mean you are wasting your time why can't you accept me at my word?

Why must you think I was saying you are wasting your time when I said I wasn't?

I was apologizing for writing something ambiguous enough that you thought I meant you were wasting your time; I was not apologizing for implying you were wasting your time because I really wasn't. You only thought I was.

Do you understand that I am not trying to tell you how to read things; I am only saying, please believe me when I say "this is what I meant" rather than saying "no it's not but that's ok, Helen". Please?

love
Helen

HelenM

Here's the point...I will always know more about what I meant than you...because I wrote it.

Whatever I said I know what I meant.

*sigh*

ok, peace to you, we needn't continue to discuss this...I hate arguing

love
Helen

-DB-

I think that God taking over the flea and causing it to bite the dog at that moment in time would be much more plausible.

You both have been focusing on the smell of the hornets, but I think that the sound would be more of a warning to the dog than the smell. I don't mean to sound speculative but I know cats are instinctively scared by a hissing sound. I know I don't have the facts but that could be stretched, with some evidence of course, that the dog would be affected negatively by the sound of the hornets. Also, you said that this sound was quite noticeable, since you heard the sound of hornets buzzing around your head once you started paying attention.

Also, jaliet, I believe you are wasting your time too, but only because I don't think anything you say is seriously considered by rainbow walking, but instead discounted without thought.