keyser_soze

If you failed to get the lesson, here it is short and sweet. Rules are made to protect the majority. It's not always fair to every individual, but the further you get away from it, the more fair it becomes...It's the world we live in. Weigh the options, and decide well. Good luck. Even with the answer given, please do the exercise, introspection is NEVER a bad thing, it ages us. A kingdom can turn a child into a man overnight...we, as humans, for the most part rise to the occasion. Be aged 30, 40, even 50...for a little while, the world is smaller, meaner, and more unfair than you can see now. But you will have to decide what you want to live for eventually, and sooner is better. Hey, you may walk away from this exercise happier, but responsibility has a way of becoming a heavy load, the more you take on, the heavier it becomes...but eventually you see the view from higher up, and it makes stomaching the apparently anti-youth rules much easier. You even begin to agree with them. It's true, if you do not follow your heart when you are younger you are empty, and if you don't act with reserve and judicious thought when you are older you are foolish. Oh well, enough philosophical drivel from me, salus populi suprema lex!

Koyaanisqatsi

It wasn't an argument, it was an explanation. Do you really expect us to believe you are so stupid as to not know what points are being made that you do need to respond to?



Well, actually, come to think of it....

Yes, you've sung this song before and are thereby once again completely avoiding what I actually posted.

I clearly delineated precisely what my arguments were and you constantly, childishly avoid ever dealing with them. Just as you are doing yet again here.

Considering you "judgment" is demonstrably skewed and you're building strawmen to have something to respond to, that doesn't surprise me. But then again, I already knew it would take another six posts at least before you would ever deal with the real issues.

No, they see my ability to effectively mount counter-arguments that pierce through all of your pointless rhetoric and obvious misdirection. Just like this.

I'm a "he," but funny you assumed I was female.

As I pointed out three times now, the only thing you have consistently avoided dealing with.

As you are doing again here and will continue to do in future posts, because you are seeking to obfuscate the real issue in any of this; the adult's responsibility (culpability) in their actions.

The fact that you keep avoiding dealing with it speaks volumes to both your lack of character and weakness of argumentation. Soapbox speeches built on strawmen.

How pathetic. My posts are detailed, specific and directly contradict and expose you over and over and over again and you're only responses are to avoid at all costs ever directly addressing anything I write.

Don't worry. You're not the first one to consistently hide behind a flurry of rhetoric and rationalizations. You can't hide from the truth since with every post you make, the fact that you are hiding is more and more obvious to everyone here.

If that makes it easier for you.

What do you know? I won this pool, too. The first was my prediction that you'd try to completely ignore anything I posted. This second one was that if you ever did post, you'd attempt childish character assasination.

Dance, monkey, dance!

Fascinating. I didn't realize we were "engaging in dialogue." As I saw it, you were posting obvious exonerative rationalizations and I was ripping them to shreds in order to expose them for what they were.

Still am, as a matter of fact, but please, let's keep making this all ad hominen so you can continue to avoid ever dealing with any of the salient points I raised.



If that makes it easier for you.

Funny how everybody else not only comprehends what you're saying, but clearly sees all of the arguments I made as piercing, logical and devastating to your "philosophy."

And now they can see yet again how you pathetically try to avoid dealing with them with this ridiculous, general ad hominen evasion tactic.

Still waiting.....

Stuff that strawman!

Then provide for us a scenario.

Indeed, I have. If you'll recall, I pointed out the trauma was that you grew up to be advocating the victimization of others; that you display demonstrable exonerative rhetoric and/or a sociopathic tendency to avoid any responsibility (culpability) for the adult's actions and that you are at the very least showing signs of being a predator yourself.

In other words, the experience you had has resulted in what you are today advocating. The experience you described points to the fact that you were coerced into having "sex" (something a five year old could not have possibly known about) and that at certain points where you felt uneasy, your rapist "tested your resolve," meaning, of course, that he forced you to do something against your will.

Classic exonerative terminology indicative of psychological trauma; similar to the Stockholm Syndrome, where kidnap victims exonerate and defend their kidnappers.

The trauma inflicted upon you has been rationalized to the point where you pretend there was no trauma, eventhough your own words betray that you were, in fact, raped against your will by a far more knowledgeable older individual, who used you for their own sexual gratification.

Thus, the victim grows up to be the victimizer (or, at the very least in your situation, the advocate of further victimization). If you'll recall, I brought all of this up before with the analogy of the victims of physical abuse growing up to abuse their own children in kind.

As you can plainly see, nothing "goes over" my head. You are, indeed, a perfect case study and since you find nothing wrong in analyzing me and my motivations, there is nothing wrong in us analyzing you and your motivations.

Your experience has led you to today advocating the victimization of others. Clear and present evidence of just one of the harms such trauma obtains in its victims. That you are not capable of recognizing it and instead go to tremendous lengths to rationalize it and obfuscate true responsibility only seals the diagnosis; not challenge it.

Obviously, none. You aren't capable of providing any evidence for something that has no evidence. Note how you again mischaracterize my arguments, carefully avoiding ever dealing with the salient points by pretending that my arguments were about "immorality" and not about the reasons why society considers it not just "immmoral," but criminal activity.

You desperately try to paint the rosiest picture so that you never have to deal with the actual trauma that was inflicted upon you. Classic case study and further proof of the harms implicit in the actions.

Further, your attempts to avoid dealing with the 18 year old's culpability speaks volumes; especially since you still were not able to completely hide the fact that he coerced you into doing something you had no knowledge of even after you felt uncertain about what was happening to you.

That you would seek to exonerate your rapist is, again, a classic psychological response that proves trauma; not argues against it. That you go beyond it and actually advocate the same victimization of others removes all doubt.

Beside the evidence of betrayal to this notion you presented, the question is, once again, what is the adult's responsibilty and how do we protect the person you are assuming I am from the harm that you have assumed was present?

Because you think your experience didn't adversly effect you (a demonstrably false notion), how do you propose we protect all of those others whose harms are present, real and devastating (such as the direct testimonials provided here)?

Because you think your experience was ok, we should therefore stop all attempts at making adult's responsible for their actions; for their inability to "engage" in sex with children?

One allegedly positive experience against the mountains of case studies in which the experience was anything but positive?

Please. You have no position to argue, other than to rationalize to your five year old self that what was taking place was somehow benign, all of your own testimony to the contrary.

What do you propose society do? Have adult/child sex chaperones to insure that everyone undergoes such a positive experience as you rationalize you had, ignoring the fact that your own experience has led you, as a mature adult, to advocate the victimization of other children?

You keep making lofty calls to a better society by trying to get the word out that, contrary to the entirety of the victims' own testimonials, because you had an allegedly positive experience, we should just stop all efforts to make adults responsible for their actions.

You offer no solutions to the tremendously harmful side effects, other than a laughable call to "society's views," when it "society's views" are the direct result of clinical case studies documenting the grievous, detrimental effects over and over and over again.

Just look in the mirror! A victim inapable of dealing with their victimization grows up to advocate further victimization!

Your experience and exonerative rhetoric alone supports the notion that children are not capable of understanding or comprehending what the adult is inflicting upon them.

Then what is your solution? Mind reading devices in all adults so that we can monitor their thoughts and motivations? Supervised sexual encounters between children and adults to insure no one is being coerced or manipulated or used for the adult's personal gratification?

Every word you type betrays the trauma that was inflicted upon you by that experience and every word you type supports the entirety of psychological case study in this area.

So why should anyone listen to your advocacy? What solutions do you propose, other than an abstraction that has little to nothing to do with the manner trauma obtains within the victim?

A "few" people? Try the overwhelming majority.

You see, this is what I mean by your own words damning you and while I agree that a 200 year sentence seems excessive, were you on the jury? Did you hear any of the testimony or see any of the evidence that resulted in such a sentence; any of the particulars of the case?

No. So you make wild, dismissive assumptions out of ignorance, while directly ignoring the totality of case study in the field; case study that proves you are dead wrong on this issue.

You offer no tangible solutions to the problems and desperately attempt to marginallize what thousands if not millions of victims went through, all because of your inability to admit that you were actually raped as a child, resulting in your lack of empathy and advocacy of like offense be allowed to happen to others, with absolutely no way to monitor the activity to insure it does not result in the same harms you constantly try to avoid addressing.

See? The "relatively few adults." If it weren't so desperately pathetic and horrifically dangerous, that would be laughable.

But let's take you at your word for once and have you detail just exactly how it is you plan on doing anything to "stop such things."

What's your plan? To marginallize the entire field of study and tell parents whose children were victimized that nothing bad will happen if they just "lighten up" a little and reallize it's perfectly natural for a predator to get his or her rocks off through coercing and "testing the resolve" of their children?

You'll stop victimization of children by advocating the victimization of children?



Your delusions betray your trauma far more than your attempts to justify and rationalize it and the fact that you can't see your own exonerative rhetoric just continues to argue for the laws we already have on the books.



Astounding. You are perfectly willing to completely dismiss the totality of cases studies in one mighty wave of your hand, for the sole purpose of justifying your advocacy of vcitimization.

Every word you type digs you deeper and deeper into your own hole. Again, you have my pity.

Such as the injustice and cruelty of forcing a child to do things they have no comprehension of, all just so the adult can get their rocks off; because the adult is incapable of acting responsibly and controlling their own sexual needs?

But there's no harm being inflicted when a five year old agrees to engaging in something they have no clue can harm them adversly, let alone demonstrably does harm them adversly.

I see. So, again, all you advocate is that adults should be able to do whatever they want to do in order to get their rocks off.

What a noble gesture on your part.

You didn't. You were coerced and "tested," all for the sake of the 18 year old who raped you to get his own rocks off. The resulting trauma has led you to advocate the victimization of others in kind, with no possible means to control or monitor what intent is in the mind of the adult or what thoughts are going through the mind of the child. You pathologically ignore or marginallize the entire field of study and insultingly dismiss the personally attested to harms of others.

You keep pretending that only a "few" bad apples are out there based on one experience that you had; an experience that has so detrimentally effected you, IMO, that you are now a grown adult advocating the same trauma be allowed to happen to other children, with absolutely no means to monitor the situation.

You employ gross rationalizations and exonerative rhetoric in order to pretend to yourself and others that you are championing a noble cause "for the children" by advocating victimization of "the children."

Every word you type....

Grown men and women experience sodomy as painful! And they gave consent!

Not to mention case after case after case of children with ripped and bleeding anuses and the documented psychological trauma obtained from such activity.

I arrived at my conclusions the old fashioned way; by reading the studies of those who are far more competent than you to assess psychological trauma.

Regardless, how do you propose to monitor future sodomy so that no pain is inflicted and no adverse effects obtain?

What is your solution to the problem? Allowing it to happen anytime an adult wants to sodomize a little boy or girl?

I studied abnormal and developmental psychology at Boston University. I am well versed in the case studies of pedophilia, which is why it is so easy to diagnose you based on what you've here written.

Unlike the entirety of your drivel, I have made no assumptions that aren't fully and amply documented in the field as well as by the few who have had the courage to relate their own experiences here; experiences that contradict every single thing you have advocated.

And what are your assumptions? That because you can't see any harm resulting from your own experience, that we should simply allow adults to do whatever it is they want to do in order to get their rocks off.

Oh, no, wait, that's right. You're just advocating "consensual" sex between a mature adult and a comparatively immature child, without being able to demonstrate a scenario in which that is possible, including your own.

You also fail to provide any guidelines whatsoever for how we would possibly be able to weed out adults and children who engage in consensual sex and those who do not.

Why? Because it's not possible, due to the maturity of the adult and the immaturity of the child.

In short, the only thing you have done here is seek to exonerate your beloved 18 year old rapist and the demonstrable subsequent effects of your own trauma; the irresponsible advocacy of like actions.

You mischaracterize the problem; ignore the totality of clinical study in the field for no supportable reason; and advocate documented detrimental actions, while providing no possible means to monitor the situations, all because you were raped as a five year old child.

Every word you type...

I have already, if you'll recall, and pointed out further that regardless of the experience for little Billy, he is still being raped by the adult.

It is the adult's responsibility and culpability that is at issue here.

I understand (as does everyone else) why you constantly seek to avoid admitting to that, but until you address it, you haven't said anything at all about the issue of adult/child rape.

There are two individuals involved. You've spent ten pages, now, focusing only on the child and the child's "sexuality" and almost nothing on the adult and the adult's responsibility/culpability in their actions, other than to finally admit the real motivation and intent of the adult.

Sure it is. Steeped as you are in your own desperate attempts to rationalize and/or marginallize what happened to you.

Not "seems." Am. As supported by the decades of case studies and direct personal testimonials in this thread as well as a simple analysis of yourself in relation to what has obtained from your own experience that prove my point.

You know, the entirety of the field you transparently seek to marginallize with every word you type?

And there is it again. Desperately trying to shift the focus off of the real issue by pretending sex is just sex and if everyone would just lighten up, predators could just go ahead and use the ignorance and innocence of children for their own sexual gratification.

After all, everybody likes sex "in itself," right? So why are all those rape victims so pissed off? It's just sex, right?

Every word you type...

And if we interviewed Billy 5 minutes after the sex and he said he did not enjoy it?

What then? What's your plan for that eventuality? What recourse do you advocate for the majority of cases, where the child does not enjoy or even comprehend what had been done to them?

Such as a reallization that he had been used by the adult? That his ignorance and innocence had been deliberately preyed upon by someone who knew what they were doing and didn't care what harms they committed?

Why don't you ask one of the survivors of such a scenario here about their trauma? Oh, that's right. You are pathologically incapable, apparently, of seeing that harms do obtain and not because of "society's views," but directly because of the rape and destruction of trust the adult necessarily engaged in, due to their maturity and the child's immaturity.

Every word you type...

That apparently has resulted in your desperate exonerative rhetoric and advocacy of victimization of others in kind in direct opposition to decades of clinical study proving you wrong on all counts.

And for all those millions out there who did not enjoy it?

What is your response to them? Too bad for you? I'm so sorry you didn't enjoy being anally raped, but just because the overwhelming majority of such incidences resulted in years of psychological trauma and the inability to engage in long term relationships that shouldn't stop the glorious kiddie rape thrills other adult predators get out of "testing the resolve" of other children?

As we can all plainly see, you do nothing but attempt to exonerate your own behavior; sociopathically avoiding any of the documented harms that have resulted in scenarios less "fortunate" than your own with a callous disregard for any possible solutions as to how a society would be able to protect children from such predators that weren't so altruistically inclined as you rationalize your own rapist was.

The responsiblity/culpability that a mature adult has when it comes to protecting an immature child from suffering possible harm would be a good place to start. Seeing as how you have patholgoically avoided dealing with this issue that is.

And then you can detail for us your plan to safeguard children from predators not so altruistic as your rapist was.

And then you can present a scenario in which consensual sex is possible between a mature adult and an immature child, since your own experience did no such thing according to your own words, however carefully marginallized the terminology.

You were approached by an 18 year old who coerced you into doing things and when you showed apparent hesitation, he "tested your resolve." The result has been for you to grow up and advocate like victimization, thus demonstrating quite clearly the traumatic, exonerative effects to all with eyes to see.

Case study closed.

Not to mention the entirety of psychological case study and your own present day advocacy.

Regardless, it still does not detail what responsibility the 18 year old has in any of this, nor does it offer any possible solutions on how society could protect children from less altruistically minded individuals (assuming there are some out there; by your own account, nothing your rapist did demonstrates altruism in the slightest).

No, I "must" not. I have and can.

If that makes it easier for you.

Funny how no one else agrees with you. I guess we're all just incapable of understanding the majest and beauty of f*cking little children the way you are, based on the experience you had of being raped as a five year old that has arguably resulted in your current exonerative adovcacy and lack of responsiblity for your actions.

At least you've finally admitted that the motive for raping little children is entirely a selfish one, so perhaps now you can address the adult's responsibility toward that end and how we, as a society, could possibly monitor such activity to insure no harm obtains?

Perhaps we can devote entire legions of police officers to stand ready outside the child's bedroom waiting for any sign that the child has mentally switched from "this is fun" to "I don't know what this is?"

Yes, that is clearly the better way to go so that we can insure the right for all adults to get sexual gratification from children.

More later.

Koyaanisqatsi

More now...

Then what is the adult's responsibility when confronted with a child who innocently seeks sexual gratification from the adult?

To give in to their own sexual needs, regardless of what harms it will inflict upon the child as documented for decades and personally attested to here by both other victims and your own sad story?

Ahh, more childish ad hominen to avoid dealing with anything salient.

Every word you type...

If that makes it easier for you.

So you clearly admit to the harms, yet offer no possible means to protect against those harms obtaining and indeed, instead advocate the removal of any possible recourse.

Funny how you aren't capable of seeing the harms inherent in just that advocacy alone.

Why wouldn't it? You have decades of case studies and the personal testimonials of victims right here in this thread that prove what you advocate is seriously detrimental to society and to the victiims.

Are we take your alleged "positive" experience as the template and simply remove the recourse to punishment for all those whose rapists inflicted all of that pain and suffering?

Why? Unlike you, we're fully capable of recognizing that it is not possible to consider sex between a mature adult and an immature child to be equally mature, consensual sex. Your own experience has resulted in your detrimental advocacy, so we don't even have that to convince us.

Why should we take the word of someone who has demonstrated a pathological inability to address anyone's arguments without childish ad hominen and obfuscation and marginallization of the harms documented in order to exonerate their own advocacy?

You provide nothing but exonerative rhetoric with no tangible solutions as to how we could possibly protect a child from being raped by an adult.

Oh, bullshite! You are in the minority and even your own experience betrays a detrimental outcome from the harm that was inflicted, whether you are psychologically capable of recognizing it or not.

Every word you type...

Since this isn't the issue, why do you keep pretending any of us will buy it?

The issue is the inherently wrong advantage taken of immature children's ignorance and innocent exploration of their own sexuality by predator adults who seek to use that child's innocence for the adult's own sexual gratification.

There is when the child can't comprehend what is being done to them and why it is being done to them and the ramifications of what is being done to them.

The fact that you just keep repeating the same old disproved rhetoric is proof enough for everyone else to see you have no "philosophy" and are championing nothing more than a self-raionalizing excuse for your own pathology.

Enough of this stupidity. The "so what" has specific ramifications and documented detrimental outcomes when it involves a child who does not have the maturity or depth of experience to comprehend what "self-gratification" means in comparison to the adult who rapes that child in order to get the adult's rocks off.

You desperately try to marginallize this with a delusional assertion that "sex is just sex," when that isn't the issue in the slightest. For the ten thousandth time now, the issue is the adult's responsibility and/or lack thereof in taking advantage of an immature child's natural curiosity in oder to gratify the adult's needs at the expense of the child's psyche and physical well being.

Every word you type...

I never said you didn't enjoy it. I'm sure you think you did. The trouble is, your current actions betray classical sociopathic, delusional exonerative advocacy that contradicts decades of case study and offers no tangible ways to insure that others who did not enjoy their experiences are protected.

You blindly advocate the victimization of others, without consideration for their harms either phsysically or mentally, with no means to safeguard against them obtaining, just because in your mind you experience did not result in anything detrimental, all evidence of your posts directly to the contrary.

You marginallize, obfuscate and outright ignore serious consequences that have been documented ad nauseam by clinically trained experts in the field all because you want to be able to get your rocks off no matter what harm it will cause.

You are a shining example as to why those laws are not just in place, but desperately needed as a means to insure some recourse to the irresponsible actions you advocate under the highly delusional smokescreen of insuring a better future "for the children."

It's called pschoanalytical deconstruction. You should look into it some time. Hopefully in the very near future.

It isn't the children's sexuality that is wrong or "evil." It the adult's sexuality that forces them into exactly these kinds of blatant self-rationalizations so that they are incapalbe of recognizing the harms they inflict.

And you wonder why I keep "harping" on the adult's responsibility in all of this.



Every word you type...

You're an expert on what children do or do not reallize are you? Why? Because you aren't capable of recognizing the harms that have resulted in your own childhood rape?

Irony. Dripping.

No, to convince adults that it can be a dangerous "evil" thing, when the adults are preoccupied with selfish, self-gratification.

But then, you know this, which is why you consistently attempt to build these pathetic straw men to assuage your own culpability in what you advocate.

Considering they are inseparable and offer forth identical ad hominens in order to carefully avoid anything salient or even relevant to the "discussion," what's the difference?

They both are incapable of addressing anything directly; opting instead for transparent evasion and simplistic strawmen fallacies in order to continue to childishly hide from addressing any of the obvious and clearly delineated issues of the adult's responsibility/culpability to not act on their selfish, self-gratifying needs when harms do, in fact, obtain from their actions.

That you are so pathologicall incapable of facing these facts proves everything I and others have argued against your "philosophy."

You stand alone. Now why would that be? Because we all just can't see the glory and majesty in f*cking little children?

Every word you type betrays the results of the trauma that was inflicted upon you. Don't blame me for correctly pointing it out to you over and over and over again.

SimplyAtheistic

I completely agree with you. I stated earlier I think the laws should stay in place. So we actually concur on this subject The only point I was trying to make is that it is possible that there might be a beneficial sexual relationship between a minor and an adult, no matter how rare. I think the laws we have are a good thing and they should not be withdrawn. The law I was concerned with (and I went a bit off topic on this) was the one that barred me from sex with an 18 year old. I was just trying to think outside of the social box I guess this is really a non-issue then.
Jake

Pat Kelly

It seems fairly obvious we have only been getting one side of the story on childhood sexuality. Most of the social stigma related to adult/child sex comes from those who have no direct firsthand knowledge or experience to draw from. Yet for some reason many such people seem to proclaim their views and interpretations are somehow more relevant and valid than the people who were actually there. We have all heard the dark side of the story coming from those who warn us about all the dangers of sex as they paint their own picture of events usually far different from the evidence presented by the actual participants. You decide whom you should believe:

Firsthand Accounts Case 1:

As a child of 8 or 9 i started haveing sex with my best frends mom and dad. When i would spend the weekend with them the whole fanly would play sex games all day long.
My frend john and i would be required to be naked wile his folks played with us and we with each other. Sometimes other peopel would come by and join in the fun. This went on untel i was about 13 and we moved away.
I am married with two boys, "now grown", and i have no hang - ups about sex. Nore do i crave children, in fact i have n normal sex life. I don't see any harm done, in fact i learned much from it and enjoyed it.

Pat Kelly

Firsthand Accounts Case 2:

My first encounter was at 7... she was 13... my best friends sister... I know that's not an adult, but almost twice my age at the time. She caught me spying through a hole in the tent in the backyard beside the pool where everyone got changed. All she said was "If you want to see me that bad, then just come in here instead of peeking through the hole" I was redfaced!!! But was in there faster than a speeding bullet!!! I instigated most of it by asking if I could feel this and that... ended up that she gave me a bit of oral but my friend came out from the house so it ended much faster than I wanted. Never did fool around with her again *sigh*... the oportunity just never arose again, but I sure tried to put myself in position many times so that it would. So anyone who says a 7 year old isn't thinking about sex, must have been a pretty boring person as a kid. When I found out how much fun this "sex stuff" could be, I was looking for it from then on

Lost my virginity at 9... to a 18 year old. It was at a field party... I was riding my mini-bike out in the fields just before dark and there were people already out there that had been partying all afternoon. The girl asked if she could go for a ride on the mini-bike. Took her for a ride on the mini-bike and was pretty bold about saying how nice her umm... boobies were (ahh... the days of the old tube top )... after a little begging on my part, I got to feel them. Maybe it was because she was drunk, who cares!!!! but I got laid for the first time

So do I sound like it had a negative emotional effect on me as I grew up? Am I emotionally scared? Oh YEAH!!! I'm scared alright! With great memories as a kid and much fun... I'm glad I got into sex early, it became a favorite passtime looking for it and since there wasn't a lot of girls my age willing, I had to chase the older ones...lol... How can that not be fun? I wasn't forced into it (otherwise it wouldn't have been fun) I have great memories of it and don't regret it one bit

Edit:
Come to think of it... I think it gave me great confidence at a young age because everything started picking up after my first sexual encounter... school grades improved, hockey was better... just overall confidence boosted everything up a notch... so I think it had a perminant POSSITIVE effect on me throughout my life... getting confidence early in life can really make a difference when you hit your teens!

keyser_soze

given the leeway that the "age window" provides, I think you are probably NOT prohibited as you think...but it would be best to research it. I think within a FEASIBLE limit, yes such relationships can occur. But you and I have a much narrower window of age range than Pat, wherein lies the debate. And yes, I think we are in agreement.

Resolution met. By chance did you perform the exercise, it has value beyond the immediate question. Give it a try.

SimplyAtheistic

Also, the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18. If one is responsible enough to die for his country, he is responsible enough to drink. The draft increases death greatly, should we ban that? Losses that were experienced when the age was lowered to 18 were acceptable, nothing horrible like 25% of all 18 year olds. Did they think the first few years would be easy? I personally believe the government should have no rule in this type of matter, as it infringes upon no one's rights and is a decision made by the person to buy the alcohol. Sure they may drive into someone and kill them, but they should be punished accordingly. I highly oppose this law.
Jake

keyser_soze

This person needs counseling, desperately. And that is a professional opinion. As well as grammar lessons.

Pat Kelly

Firsthand Accounts Case 3:

Look, I'll simplify things a bit. I am 13 and a "loved-boy", I have a very close relationship with a person that is an adult. I love him beyond description.

When I say I'm old enough to decide what to do with my body, that's what I meant. Not knockin up a girl and crazy crap like that. Responsibility? Ya, I'm responsible and I consider myself rather intelligent, so it's not an uninformed decision.

I will also say that some kids can be coerced, true. Some kids have no business in a relationship they cannot really decide on, that is true. However, nobody should make a "blanket statement" questioning the ability of "any" 12-13 year old to make a decision involving their sexual identity. I am more than qualified, and the choice is mine. Society forces me to lie about my feelings to protect the person I love, that's screwed. I didn't do that, you (society) did.

I just turned 13 in August, I have an IQ in the range of 190, I have taken and scored over 1500 on an SAT, and am currently (by agreement) in the 10th grade. I have always carried a 4.0 GPA.

And I out of the "norm", ya I am. So, again, don't assume and categorize all kids my age as being unable to make a real decision.

Most of you will balk and assume that I am untruthful, that I am misrepresenting my age, think as you wish. The fact remains that I am who I say I am, and if even the mere "possibility" exists in your mind in the form of a "benefit-of-the-doubt", then my ideas and thoughts, as provocative as they may seem, are at least very intriguing.