Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bluefugue · 01-16-2002, 06:32 AM

That is so cool. I wanna move to England now. And I suddenly oppose Britain's adopting the Euro.

lpetrich · 01-23-2002, 11:56 AM

Slight update: I've decided that childhood-description and tomb-survival scores are only relevant if someone's infancy had been described or if someone had not been buried.

This pushes Charles Darwin's score down by 1 to 7.5

lpetrich · 01-23-2002, 05:11 PM

Just got a fun idea on Charles Darwin as a mythic hero; he needs some really good birth story.

The Bishop of Shrewsbury goes to a fortuneteller one day, wanting to find out what to expect in his future, and he discovers that Robert and Emma Darwin are pregnant with a boy who will grow up to work out biological evolution, complete with humanity's simian ancestry.

This bishop is repulsed by the thought of it, and he hatches a plot to kill the baby Charles. Which he tries to construct very carefully, so that it will be difficult to finger him. But someone leaks the plot, and Robert and Emma visit some family friends in another town, have Charles there, and return. Those family friends then raise Charles, frustrating that bishop.

Later on in life, that bishop confronts CD as he starts to work out evolution, and CD makes him look silly by quoting some of the more obviously metaphorical and scientifically-backward parts of the Bible.

Interestingly, there is something like this confrontation that has been elevated to legend: the famous Huxley-Wilberforce debate.

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

Jeremy Pallant · 01-27-2002, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pantera:
<strong>And now he even appears on the British ten pound note.

While looking for a picture, I was heartened to read the Bank Of England's <a href="http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/design.htm" target="_blank">criteria for choosing people to put on money</a> - a nice reminder of how different Britain is to the US.</strong>

You just made my day, Pantera. I spent Christmas with my parents in England, and none of the tenner's I saw during that time had Darwin's picture on them. However I am heartened to learn that the UK remains as secular as ever.

Can you imagine the fuss if someone proposed putting Darwin on a US banknote?

Francois Tremblay · 01-28-2002, 01:30 PM

The main difference is that we have historical evidence for Darwin, while none for Jesus (I don't know about the others). Even if his life seems "mythical", that's because he was a great man, not because he's fictional.

Adrian Selby · 01-29-2002, 05:13 AM

Franc, are you suggesting no historical evidence for Jesus as a prophet or all the supernatural stuff about being the son of God. I've read some threads on spark online regarding the evidence for the historical person that seem to indicate there was an identifiable Jesus, though its of course a big (and silly) step to attribute Godhood and miracles to him.

Adrian

bluefugue · 01-29-2002, 06:59 AM

This isn't really what this topic is about. lpetrich isn't saying Darwin is a mythological figure; he's just comparing Darwin's life to a set of criteria for mythic figures, to see how well he fits. It's more of an intellectual game than anything else.

As for a debate about the evidence for Jesus, that probably belongs in the BC&A forum.

Francois Tremblay · 01-29-2002, 07:30 AM

Quote:

I've read some threads on spark online regarding the evidence for the historical person that seem to indicate there was an identifiable Jesus

Well go win your Nobel Prize, because there is no such evidence right now (^_^)
That's not really the subject of this thread anyway. If you want to send me information by email though, go ahead.

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01-16-2002, 06:32 AM	#11
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	That is so cool. I wanna move to England now. And I suddenly oppose Britain's adopting the Euro.

01-23-2002, 11:56 AM	#12
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Slight update: I've decided that childhood-description and tomb-survival scores are only relevant if someone's infancy had been described or if someone had not been buried. This pushes Charles Darwin's score down by 1 to 7.5

01-23-2002, 05:11 PM	#13
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Just got a fun idea on Charles Darwin as a mythic hero; he needs some really good birth story. The Bishop of Shrewsbury goes to a fortuneteller one day, wanting to find out what to expect in his future, and he discovers that Robert and Emma Darwin are pregnant with a boy who will grow up to work out biological evolution, complete with humanity's simian ancestry. This bishop is repulsed by the thought of it, and he hatches a plot to kill the baby Charles. Which he tries to construct very carefully, so that it will be difficult to finger him. But someone leaks the plot, and Robert and Emma visit some family friends in another town, have Charles there, and return. Those family friends then raise Charles, frustrating that bishop. Later on in life, that bishop confronts CD as he starts to work out evolution, and CD makes him look silly by quoting some of the more obviously metaphorical and scientifically-backward parts of the Bible. Interestingly, there is something like this confrontation that has been elevated to legend: the famous Huxley-Wilberforce debate. [ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

01-28-2002, 01:30 PM	#15
Francois Tremblay Banned Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 876	The main difference is that we have historical evidence for Darwin, while none for Jesus (I don't know about the others). Even if his life seems "mythical", that's because he was a great man, not because he's fictional.

01-29-2002, 05:13 AM	#16
Adrian Selby Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Farnham, UK Posts: 859	Franc, are you suggesting no historical evidence for Jesus as a prophet or all the supernatural stuff about being the son of God. I've read some threads on spark online regarding the evidence for the historical person that seem to indicate there was an identifiable Jesus, though its of course a big (and silly) step to attribute Godhood and miracles to him. Adrian

01-29-2002, 06:59 AM	#17
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	This isn't really what this topic is about. lpetrich isn't saying Darwin is a mythological figure; he's just comparing Darwin's life to a set of criteria for mythic figures, to see how well he fits. It's more of an intellectual game than anything else. As for a debate about the evidence for Jesus, that probably belongs in the BC&A forum.

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